5 ms·

I've said it a million times, but I'll repeat it. There are a lot of conspiracy nuts like Alex Jones, and the amusing thing to me is that there is a conspiracy

by tombert 8mo ago

I've said it a million times, but I'll repeat it. There are a lot of conspiracy nuts like Alex Jones, and the amusing thing to me is that there is a conspiracy of elites who are exerting large amounts of unelected control of the government, and who are actively working to keep you down to enrich themselves, and it's not even a secret. We call these people "billionaires", and at this point they don't even bother hiding it. Trump had a streamlined bribery system with his stupid cryptocurrency and being in charge of a publicly traded company while in office, Musk bought his way in so he could be in charge of a new department and start defunding any organization that has ever tried to investigate him, and there are hundreds of examples. Instead morons like Alex Jones will go on the radio and blame lizards or something, and then his listeners will take that and then start blaming Jews or Mexicans, while cheering on the actual conspiracy that's making their lives terrible.

juleiie 8mo ago
Some people just don’t want to hear it no matter what. Not because they are unusually stupid or inherently evil but because they feel severely hurt by the societal changes and left out. Anything that gives a hint of hope of reverting things to be the way they were is justified and no price is too high. They can steal as long as they are our thieves. To get through to these people you have to validate their deep fears. Not just say - shut up, you are stupid, vote for me.
- tombert 8mo ago
  > To get through to these people you have to validate their deep fears. Not just say - shut up, you are stupid, vote for me. Everyone says this kind of stuff, but honestly I don't think I agree. Everyone says that you have to be nice to these people to attract them, but that doesn't seem to have been the case for people like Trump or any of the other demagogues that have popped up in the last decade or so. These people are decidedly huge assholes. Trump is the most easily offended person I have ever seen, and whenever anyone ever goes against him he will go on his stupid Twitter clone and give a diatribe about how they're not true Americans and they're radical left and they're traitors and a bunch of other bullshit. People like John McCain and Mitt Romney tried to meet people where they are and negotiate, and both of them failed to win the presidency. Trump went on stage, rambled a bunch of incoherent nonsense about how Mexico not sending their best or trying to brag about having a giant cock and he's been elected twice now. I'm not convinced that being polite to these conservatives is actually the right path forward. I tried being polite to my grandmother when we would discuss these things and instead of reflecting on her believes she's fully fallen down the QAnon rabbit hole and has actively said to me that my wife should be deported.
  - juleiie 8mo ago
    One fictional character that I think is helpful to bring is Luke Skywalker. It’s not about politeness, but about genuinely knowing why people behave the way they are and then offering them alternative other than QAnon. Listening to QAnon is a desperate attempt to understand the world after every other mainstream figure of authority failed that person. What I am talking about is not politeness. Politeness is tone management. The McCain/Romney approach. I respect my opponent, let's find common ground, here's my reasonable plan. That is only decorum. But Trump did validate. That's precisely why he won. He just validated the ugliest parts. When he said the system is rigged, that the elites despise you, that your way of life is under siege, millions of people heard the first person in power say what they felt. The content was often vile, the solutions were fraudulent, but the emotional recognition was real. He didn't win by being polite. He won by being the first one to say your rage makes sense. The mistake is thinking validation means being nice. It doesn't. It means demonstrating that you understand what someone is actually experiencing before you ask them to go somewhere with you. Trump does this instinctively, he just leads people somewhere destructive.
    - tombert 8mo ago
      I don't think I disagree much with what you said, but frankly I think that is a task for other people. I am exceedingly impatient with this kind of stuff, from people that I think should know better. I try to avoid these arguments now entirely and live in my happy progressive NYC bubble. No doubt that diplomacy with this stuff is necessary but I don't think that that's something anyone should want me specifically for.
      - switchbak 8mo ago
        I think what you’ve said is thoughtful and honest and I disagree with the downvotes. I’m one of the politically homeless, and not even a resident of the USA, so I suppose I have an easy out. Life can be very hard, and I don’t fault anyone for prioritizing their life over a political situation that is so very hard to affect. I do appreciate those that dedicate themselves though, the ones that seem to be helping and not hurting, anyway.
ml-anon 8mo ago
Not to mention trafficking and raping children
- bionsystem 8mo ago
  I still fail to see if that is their side hobby or the entire point for them.
  - lazide 8mo ago
    To get into power, you need to be supposed by others (the vast majority of the time). For those doing the supporting, they often want to be assured that they’ll not be hurt or retaliated against by those they put ‘above’ them. So, leverage, and what is the best kind of leverage? the most despicable thing one can think of.
GorbachevyChase 8mo ago
Be the change, my man. Try to make a podcast. I think it will eventually make sense why nobody who is a threat and also famous.
- tombert 8mo ago
  I don't think the world needs another geeky guy making a podcast about his unearned political opinions. I have all the equipment necessary for a podcast (a decent Shure microphone and Zoom sound interface), but my political opinions don't usually stray too far from typical American progressive stuff and there's already a million podcasts for those kinds of viewpoints from people more educated on these subjects than I am. When I have a perspective that I do think is unique I'll write something on my blog but generally I've stayed away from any kind of partisan politics on there because I don't see the point in regurgitating the same stuff everyone else is.
  - GorbachevyChase 8mo ago
    You might give it a try. If you signal your loyalty consistently enough, you might find a patron who will give you a little money to live as a progressive missionary. You may not have the genetic bona fides to get a speaking role on NPR, but there are plenty of fake charity jobs out there supporting “the movement“
- tobr 8mo ago
  > Be the change, my man. Try to make a podcast. This might be the funniest thing I’ve read today.
ikr678 8mo ago
The only war is class war, but those at the top spend a lot of money creating new culture wars instead to keep us busy.
- tombert 8mo ago
  "With, without, And who'll deny it's what the fighting's all about?"
  - derwiki 8mo ago
    Out of the way, it’s a busy day! I’ve got things on my mind.
- breppp 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  - direwolf20 8mo ago
    After 1000M died due to capitalism, people are still sure it was accurate and we just haven't done that correctly.
    - conz 8mo ago
      [flagged]
      - somat 8mo ago
        It is probably true, but it is also a useless statistic, let me explain. 8 billion people, avg lifespan 70 years, 115 million people die each year, percentage in capitalist economic zones... No clue, does china count? but probably 80 to 90% so about 10 years for capitalism to cause a billion deaths.
    - CamperBob2 8mo ago
      I see Reddit is leaking again.
enaaem 8mo ago
From the Epstein files we know that these billionaires are exactly behind these conspiracy guys like Qanon. It is called controlled opposition.
wartywhoa23 8mo ago
Jones in a shill, plain and simple. A puppet of said and unsaid billi/trillionaires. Discredit By Association is written all over his yelling face.
graemep 8mo ago
I have long thought that the greatest harm conspiracy theories do is to distract attention from actual problems, and to discredit attempts to draw attention to them by labelling them all as conspiracy theories. Other things are used too. A lot of the attention given to culture wars issues distracts attention from other issues. Its not just the right either. It allows people to pose as left wing while actually not being left wing on economic and business issues which are the traditional definition (the labour party in the UK - to be fair the left within it does seem to the reviving now). With the Epstein affair, the shock people feel about sex crimes is being used focus just on those to avoid investigating the corruption in the US and other countries . The UK's two high profile arrests, of former Prince Andrew, and the far more important Peter Mandelson (former cabinet minister, for EU Commissioner, very close to multiple Prime Ministers) have been for passing on sensitive information but this is almost certainly a tiny fraction of what was going on.

by tombert 8mo ago

juleiie 8mo ago

Some people just don’t want to hear it no matter what. Not because they are unusually stupid or inherently evil but because they feel severely hurt by the societal changes and left out. Anything that gives a hint of hope of reverting things to be the way they were is justified and no price is too high. They can steal as long as they are our thieves. To get through to these people you have to validate their deep fears. Not just say - shut up, you are stupid, vote for me.

tombert 8mo ago
> To get through to these people you have to validate their deep fears. Not just say - shut up, you are stupid, vote for me. Everyone says this kind of stuff, but honestly I don't think I agree. Everyone says that you have to be nice to these people to attract them, but that doesn't seem to have been the case for people like Trump or any of the other demagogues that have popped up in the last decade or so. These people are decidedly huge assholes. Trump is the most easily offended person I have ever seen, and whenever anyone ever goes against him he will go on his stupid Twitter clone and give a diatribe about how they're not true Americans and they're radical left and they're traitors and a bunch of other bullshit. People like John McCain and Mitt Romney tried to meet people where they are and negotiate, and both of them failed to win the presidency. Trump went on stage, rambled a bunch of incoherent nonsense about how Mexico not sending their best or trying to brag about having a giant cock and he's been elected twice now. I'm not convinced that being polite to these conservatives is actually the right path forward. I tried being polite to my grandmother when we would discuss these things and instead of reflecting on her believes she's fully fallen down the QAnon rabbit hole and has actively said to me that my wife should be deported.
- juleiie 8mo ago
  One fictional character that I think is helpful to bring is Luke Skywalker. It’s not about politeness, but about genuinely knowing why people behave the way they are and then offering them alternative other than QAnon. Listening to QAnon is a desperate attempt to understand the world after every other mainstream figure of authority failed that person. What I am talking about is not politeness. Politeness is tone management. The McCain/Romney approach. I respect my opponent, let's find common ground, here's my reasonable plan. That is only decorum. But Trump did validate. That's precisely why he won. He just validated the ugliest parts. When he said the system is rigged, that the elites despise you, that your way of life is under siege, millions of people heard the first person in power say what they felt. The content was often vile, the solutions were fraudulent, but the emotional recognition was real. He didn't win by being polite. He won by being the first one to say your rage makes sense. The mistake is thinking validation means being nice. It doesn't. It means demonstrating that you understand what someone is actually experiencing before you ask them to go somewhere with you. Trump does this instinctively, he just leads people somewhere destructive.
  - tombert 8mo ago
    I don't think I disagree much with what you said, but frankly I think that is a task for other people. I am exceedingly impatient with this kind of stuff, from people that I think should know better. I try to avoid these arguments now entirely and live in my happy progressive NYC bubble. No doubt that diplomacy with this stuff is necessary but I don't think that that's something anyone should want me specifically for.
    - switchbak 8mo ago
      I think what you’ve said is thoughtful and honest and I disagree with the downvotes. I’m one of the politically homeless, and not even a resident of the USA, so I suppose I have an easy out. Life can be very hard, and I don’t fault anyone for prioritizing their life over a political situation that is so very hard to affect. I do appreciate those that dedicate themselves though, the ones that seem to be helping and not hurting, anyway.

ml-anon 8mo ago

Not to mention trafficking and raping children

bionsystem 8mo ago
I still fail to see if that is their side hobby or the entire point for them.
- lazide 8mo ago
  To get into power, you need to be supposed by others (the vast majority of the time). For those doing the supporting, they often want to be assured that they’ll not be hurt or retaliated against by those they put ‘above’ them. So, leverage, and what is the best kind of leverage? the most despicable thing one can think of.

GorbachevyChase 8mo ago

Be the change, my man. Try to make a podcast. I think it will eventually make sense why nobody who is a threat and also famous.

tombert 8mo ago
I don't think the world needs another geeky guy making a podcast about his unearned political opinions. I have all the equipment necessary for a podcast (a decent Shure microphone and Zoom sound interface), but my political opinions don't usually stray too far from typical American progressive stuff and there's already a million podcasts for those kinds of viewpoints from people more educated on these subjects than I am. When I have a perspective that I do think is unique I'll write something on my blog but generally I've stayed away from any kind of partisan politics on there because I don't see the point in regurgitating the same stuff everyone else is.
- GorbachevyChase 8mo ago
  You might give it a try. If you signal your loyalty consistently enough, you might find a patron who will give you a little money to live as a progressive missionary. You may not have the genetic bona fides to get a speaking role on NPR, but there are plenty of fake charity jobs out there supporting “the movement“
tobr 8mo ago
> Be the change, my man. Try to make a podcast. This might be the funniest thing I’ve read today.

ikr678 8mo ago

The only war is class war, but those at the top spend a lot of money creating new culture wars instead to keep us busy.

tombert 8mo ago
"With, without, And who'll deny it's what the fighting's all about?"
- derwiki 8mo ago
  Out of the way, it’s a busy day! I’ve got things on my mind.
breppp 8mo ago
[flagged]
- direwolf20 8mo ago
  After 1000M died due to capitalism, people are still sure it was accurate and we just haven't done that correctly.
  - conz 8mo ago
    [flagged]
    - somat 8mo ago
      It is probably true, but it is also a useless statistic, let me explain. 8 billion people, avg lifespan 70 years, 115 million people die each year, percentage in capitalist economic zones... No clue, does china count? but probably 80 to 90% so about 10 years for capitalism to cause a billion deaths.
  - CamperBob2 8mo ago
    I see Reddit is leaking again.

enaaem 8mo ago

From the Epstein files we know that these billionaires are exactly behind these conspiracy guys like Qanon. It is called controlled opposition.

wartywhoa23 8mo ago

Jones in a shill, plain and simple. A puppet of said and unsaid billi/trillionaires. Discredit By Association is written all over his yelling face.

graemep 8mo ago

I have long thought that the greatest harm conspiracy theories do is to distract attention from actual problems, and to discredit attempts to draw attention to them by labelling them all as conspiracy theories. Other things are used too. A lot of the attention given to culture wars issues distracts attention from other issues. Its not just the right either. It allows people to pose as left wing while actually not being left wing on economic and business issues which are the traditional definition (the labour party in the UK - to be fair the left within it does seem to the reviving now). With the Epstein affair, the shock people feel about sex crimes is being used focus just on those to avoid investigating the corruption in the US and other countries . The UK's two high profile arrests, of former Prince Andrew, and the far more important Peter Mandelson (former cabinet minister, for EU Commissioner, very close to multiple Prime Ministers) have been for passing on sensitive information but this is almost certainly a tiny fraction of what was going on.