4 ms·

I was personally deeply shocked recently, when I sat with my children as they were watching the animated Iron Man series at their grandpas house. This was on Su

I was personally deeply shocked recently, when I sat with my children as they were watching the animated Iron Man series at their grandpas house. This was on Sunday morning TV. The episode was about other 'bad' characters stealing Iron Mans suit. I was alarmed when the dialog turned explicitly to talk of Patents and how evil it was that they were infringing Iron Mans designs. As I continued to watch it dawned on me that the whole episode was just one big propaganda piece. Disneys dialog is present, right beneath our noses. Best link to relevant episode: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armor_Wars#section_5 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armor_Wars#section_5

tptacek 14y ago
Two responses. (i) Millions of kids saw that episode and went on to pirate movies and music anyways, because kids don't really derive their ethics from cartoon series, just like you & I aren't secretly animated by "Knowing is Half The Battle" from G.I. Joe. (http://www.joeheadquarters.com/joeendings.shtml http://www.joeheadquarters.com/joeendings.shtml) (ii) The particular message you're suggesting Iron Man is "propagandizing" is so anodyne that it was the subject of a whole episode of Arthur on PBS.
- AutoCorrect 14y ago
  You mean I'm the only one that "Knowing is Half the Battle" animates? Gadzooks!
  - CodeCube 14y ago
    Nah man,when my kids make a mistake (or almost make a mistake), I go out of my way to tell them how they could have avoided it; 9 times out of 10 I end the discussion with, "And now you know ..." before I realize what I'm saying :P
- a3_nm 14y ago
  > Millions of kids saw that episode and went on to pirate movies and music anyways, because kids don't really derive their ethics from cartoon series The point of such propaganda would not be to ensure that people don't pirate, but to plant the idea that doing so is morally bad, so that lobbying efforts in favor of IP protection laws seem morally legitimate.
  - tptacek 14y ago
    Then the evil forces of Disney are in league with PBS to deliver that message.
    - smokeyj 14y ago
      "It's cool guys, Arthur supports IP too."
- PakG1 14y ago
  Embarrassing and silly personal story that demonstrates how entertainment/media can influence kids. When I was a little kid, Saved by the Bell was a really funny show. I loved watching it. I read books that had the same characters as well. In one of the books, one of the girls was saying she couldn't date a certain guy. Her friend asked her why not. She said it was because they were already friends, so it would be too strange to date. For years after that, I thought it was a stupid idea to date friends. I thought I should only try to date strangers or acquaintances, which was hard because I was timid about that kind of stuff. My parents didn't even get involved because they didn't think it was important, and that I'd figure it out. So my dating record during high school was zero, and even during university, it wasn't going anywhere until very late in the game. During this time, I passed up on the opportunity to date many wonderful girls who were high in character, very attractive, etc, just because we were already friends. No, I had to find someone to date who was not yet a friend, except I couldn't get date-comfortable with girls without becoming friends first. What a stupid infinite loop. It's a stupid and embarrassing story, but it did indeed happen. And as dumb as it is, I've only in the last few years overcome that completely illogical obstruction in my mind. Parents, talk to your kids about what they watch on TV, play on their PS3, and read in books. Ethics may or may not be impacted, but if behaviour can be impacted, I bet you ethics could be as well.
- rogerbraun 14y ago
  The PSA endings you linked to all seem to be sensible and somewhat obvious advice for children, like not to pet strange animals and to be nice to your friends. Similarly, the show Captain Planet had lessons about caring for the environment. I think this is qualitatively different from teaching kids about copyright law.
- rapind 14y ago
  I totally disagree. I believe that television, cartoon series or not, can affect kid's ethics (and behaviour, etc.) when it comes to little things they may not already have guidance on. You know, commonplace stuff like downloading a pirated video. Messages like this may instill fear and / or soften them up for future arguments. Is it really that tin foil hat-ish to suggest that Disney has a boat in this race, and might try to exert some influence through their content? Hey, maybe they aren't, but I definitely don't think it's terribly far-fetched to question it.
code_duck 14y ago
Attempts at societal manipulation are ever present in popular media... it's often subtle and overlooked. Often, characters treat certain ideas or positions dismissively, influencing people to think that their 'peers' believe in that way.
tjpick 14y ago
and then he jumped in his flying suit and flew around the city beating people up under his own sense of vigilante justice, all powered by the rubics cube sized nuclear reactor he has instead of a heart... But you're worried about the influence of the talk of patent has on your kids?
lukejduncan 14y ago
I think it's a fair observation and comment. Not sure why you're getting hated on so much.
shriphani 14y ago
Kids don't give a shit.
- tptacek 14y ago
  Well, I did learn not to hide in discarded refrigerators from Punky Brewster.
  - jessedhillon 14y ago
    Some people learn from the Bible and associated interpretations that if they pray hard enough, dead people can walk again, but more people learn that gays are evil. People are able to analogize from fiction, or did you think the moral of the Sour Grapes fable was not to taunt foxes?
  - cmccabe 14y ago
    Well, I did learn not to hide in discarded refrigerators from Punky Brewster. That's funny; another of Mr. Lucas' fine films taught me that you can survive a direct nuclear explosion by hiding in a discarded refrigerator.
    - rglovejoy 14y ago
      It's not so implausible: http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/AtMovieIndyJones4.HTM http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/AtMovieIndyJones4.HTM
      - cmccabe 14y ago
        The question isn't whether it's plausible or not-- this is Indiana Jones, after all. The question is whether it worked in the movie. The whole scene is bizarrely out of place and is making light of something that most people don't think is really all that funny. In a similar vein, there's nothing wrong with funny characters necessarily, but there is something wrong with Jar Jar.
  - lutze 14y ago

tptacek 14y ago

Two responses. (i) Millions of kids saw that episode and went on to pirate movies and music anyways, because kids don't really derive their ethics from cartoon series, just like you & I aren't secretly animated by "Knowing is Half The Battle" from G.I. Joe. (http://www.joeheadquarters.com/joeendings.shtml http://www.joeheadquarters.com/joeendings.shtml) (ii) The particular message you're suggesting Iron Man is "propagandizing" is so anodyne that it was the subject of a whole episode of Arthur on PBS.

AutoCorrect 14y ago
You mean I'm the only one that "Knowing is Half the Battle" animates? Gadzooks!
- CodeCube 14y ago
  Nah man,when my kids make a mistake (or almost make a mistake), I go out of my way to tell them how they could have avoided it; 9 times out of 10 I end the discussion with, "And now you know ..." before I realize what I'm saying :P
a3_nm 14y ago
> Millions of kids saw that episode and went on to pirate movies and music anyways, because kids don't really derive their ethics from cartoon series The point of such propaganda would not be to ensure that people don't pirate, but to plant the idea that doing so is morally bad, so that lobbying efforts in favor of IP protection laws seem morally legitimate.
- tptacek 14y ago
  Then the evil forces of Disney are in league with PBS to deliver that message.
  - smokeyj 14y ago
    "It's cool guys, Arthur supports IP too."
PakG1 14y ago
Embarrassing and silly personal story that demonstrates how entertainment/media can influence kids. When I was a little kid, Saved by the Bell was a really funny show. I loved watching it. I read books that had the same characters as well. In one of the books, one of the girls was saying she couldn't date a certain guy. Her friend asked her why not. She said it was because they were already friends, so it would be too strange to date. For years after that, I thought it was a stupid idea to date friends. I thought I should only try to date strangers or acquaintances, which was hard because I was timid about that kind of stuff. My parents didn't even get involved because they didn't think it was important, and that I'd figure it out. So my dating record during high school was zero, and even during university, it wasn't going anywhere until very late in the game. During this time, I passed up on the opportunity to date many wonderful girls who were high in character, very attractive, etc, just because we were already friends. No, I had to find someone to date who was not yet a friend, except I couldn't get date-comfortable with girls without becoming friends first. What a stupid infinite loop. It's a stupid and embarrassing story, but it did indeed happen. And as dumb as it is, I've only in the last few years overcome that completely illogical obstruction in my mind. Parents, talk to your kids about what they watch on TV, play on their PS3, and read in books. Ethics may or may not be impacted, but if behaviour can be impacted, I bet you ethics could be as well.
rogerbraun 14y ago
The PSA endings you linked to all seem to be sensible and somewhat obvious advice for children, like not to pet strange animals and to be nice to your friends. Similarly, the show Captain Planet had lessons about caring for the environment. I think this is qualitatively different from teaching kids about copyright law.
rapind 14y ago
I totally disagree. I believe that television, cartoon series or not, can affect kid's ethics (and behaviour, etc.) when it comes to little things they may not already have guidance on. You know, commonplace stuff like downloading a pirated video. Messages like this may instill fear and / or soften them up for future arguments. Is it really that tin foil hat-ish to suggest that Disney has a boat in this race, and might try to exert some influence through their content? Hey, maybe they aren't, but I definitely don't think it's terribly far-fetched to question it.

code_duck 14y ago

Attempts at societal manipulation are ever present in popular media... it's often subtle and overlooked. Often, characters treat certain ideas or positions dismissively, influencing people to think that their 'peers' believe in that way.

tjpick 14y ago

and then he jumped in his flying suit and flew around the city beating people up under his own sense of vigilante justice, all powered by the rubics cube sized nuclear reactor he has instead of a heart... But you're worried about the influence of the talk of patent has on your kids?

lukejduncan 14y ago

I think it's a fair observation and comment. Not sure why you're getting hated on so much.

shriphani 14y ago

Kids don't give a shit.

tptacek 14y ago
Well, I did learn not to hide in discarded refrigerators from Punky Brewster.
- jessedhillon 14y ago
  Some people learn from the Bible and associated interpretations that if they pray hard enough, dead people can walk again, but more people learn that gays are evil. People are able to analogize from fiction, or did you think the moral of the Sour Grapes fable was not to taunt foxes?
- cmccabe 14y ago
  Well, I did learn not to hide in discarded refrigerators from Punky Brewster. That's funny; another of Mr. Lucas' fine films taught me that you can survive a direct nuclear explosion by hiding in a discarded refrigerator.
  - rglovejoy 14y ago
    It's not so implausible: http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/AtMovieIndyJones4.HTM http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/AtMovieIndyJones4.HTM
    - cmccabe 14y ago
      The question isn't whether it's plausible or not-- this is Indiana Jones, after all. The question is whether it worked in the movie. The whole scene is bizarrely out of place and is making light of something that most people don't think is really all that funny. In a similar vein, there's nothing wrong with funny characters necessarily, but there is something wrong with Jar Jar.
- lutze 14y ago