4 ms·
> Tell that to the 30k+ iranian protestors that were killed. > Are you actually using "in good faith" and the current horrendous iranian regime in the same sent
by sekai 7mo ago
> Tell that to the 30k+ iranian protestors that were killed.
> Are you actually using "in good faith" and the current horrendous iranian regime in the same sentence?
If US needs to intervene, why are they are not intervening in Ukraine? Far worse things has been happening there for 4 years.
- JumpCrisscross 7mo ago> why are they are not intervening in Ukraine? ...we are? Totally insufficiently. And immaterially, now [1]. But we're still providing intelligence support. [1] https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-america-stockpiles-army-trump-pentagon-weapons-94ff0c465b58608c653b6f64c113a5b9 https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-america-stockpiles-army-t...
- mupuff1234 7mo agoMy point is saying that the iranian regime is doing anything "in good faith" is just beyond absurd. They have long lost the ability to claim that any of their actions are in good faith.
- sva_ 7mo agoI don't think the Ukranian people are being supressed by their own gov
- no-name-here 7mo agoIs the argument that the U.S. should only militarily intervene when conflicts are internal within another country, as opposed to when it’s one country invading another? As that’s the opposite of the established international laws around prohibiting one state from attacking another vs the principle of non-intervention.
- CapricornNoble 7mo ago1. The Russian position in 2014 was that the Ukrainian people in Donbas were being oppressed by the new Ukrainian central government. 2. There's a lot of domestic political/information suppression in Ukraine but I consider this somewhat normal for a nation in a pretty existential conflict. 3. The Ukrainian military is 70-80% conscripts, increasingly of the "forcibly mobilized" variety (look up "TCC busification" for examples), with almost all military-age males banned from leaving the country. Dudes are getting beaten up, stuffed into vans, and sent to trenches to eat Russian artillery and FABs (air-to-ground bombs)....against their will. I think that definitely counts as suppression.
- cylemons 7mo agoWhat is Ukraine supposed to do then?
- klibertp 7mo agoLose. Evacuate the government. Then mount a guerrilla, and wait for an opportunity. It'll come, most likely sooner rather than later. Why is that unthinkable? I can understand people in the US being unable to process such a scenario, but here in Europe, there's not a single nation that wasn't off the map for some time. I know why Ukrainians don't want that, but the demographic costs of tens to hundreds of thousands of "military age men" dying are so huge that any plausible alternative should be considered, even if it's very unpleasant.
- ceejayoz 7mo ago> Why is that unthinkable? Because it’s unthinkably stupid. > I know why Ukrainians don't want that, but the demographic costs of tens to hundreds of thousands of "military age men" dying are so huge that any plausible alternative should be considered, even if it's very unpleasant. And you imagine they won’t die in your guerrilla war? Or the next invasion after an emboldened Russia regroups?
- Sabinus 7mo agoYou're suggesting a decades long guerrilla movement under occupation will be better for the Ukrainian people than conscription during an existential defensive war?
- klibertp 7mo agoIn terms of the number of lives lost? Yes. Guerrilla resistance is a way of trading important advantages (like control of the territory or political legitimacy) for time and human lives. Guerrillas in a favorable environment tend to suffer much lower casualties per fighter per unit of time than trench warfare along a frontline. It's a desperate measure, but so is snatching people from the street to bus them off to trenches. Personally, I think people can live through almost any hell (and can make a comeback later) - unless they die, in which case they can't do anything anymore. Decades of hard times, in this view, are preferable to tens of thousands of excess deaths per year over a decade. I understand why people are reluctant to consider this - I'm just trying to show that there are alternatives to the current situation; not strictly better, but at least presenting different trade-offs. In a situation of "existential defensive war," we should discuss all plausible options, even the most controversial ones.
- lurk2 7mo agoThey haven’t had an election since the war started and routinely force unwilling conscripts into vans.
- ceejayoz 7mo ago> They haven’t had an election since the war started Because that’s what their constitution says. https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/ukraines-presidential-elections-amid-war-political-legal-and-security-challenges https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/ukraines-presidential... > routinely force unwilling conscripts into vans Can you clarify what you understand conscription to be?
- nullocator 7mo agoWhat does the Iranian say? If we're all about respecting documents, we should make sure we assess them all equally. The U.S. constitution has a lot to say about many of the things that are happening right now, but those are being happily ignored. We can't even respect our own constitution, the idea that we'd respect others is laughable.
- ceejayoz 7mo agoTrump’s disregard for both constitutions is not a good reason for Zelensky to ignore his own.
- lurk2 7mo ago> Because that’s what their constitution says. “They have People’s Republic right there in the name, what are you people not getting about this?” > Can you clarify what you understand conscription to be? A violation of human dignity.
- ceejayoz 7mo ago> A violation of human dignity. A dodge, but we can work with that. A yes or no question, now: Would the citizens of a sovereign nation being forced to violate their Constitution by Putin and Trump be a “violation of human dignity” too?
- von_lohengramm 7mo ago[flagged]
- ceejayoz 7mo ago> armed men wearing balaclavas drive up in vans and abduct people off the street to draft them into the military Every country with conscription will do this if you refuse to show up. > Both the west and the east have been pressuring them to hold elections to no avail. Their own constitution and laws forbids it during martial law. “Both Putin and Trump want Zelensky to violate the Ukrainian Constitution” is not the grand slam take you imagine it to be.
- von_lohengramm 7mo ago> Every country with conscription will do this if you refuse to show up. Was that MP a draft dodger? The issue isn't them picking draft dodgers, it's them picking up anybody that looks like they might be a draft dodger and the tactics they employ to do it.
- brightball 7mo agoBecause in Ukraine if we intervene directly the US will be at war with Russia. Instead we are supplying weapons and intel.
- NicuCalcea 7mo ago> we are supplying weapons To be more specific, since 2025, selling weapons. "And everything we send over to Ukraine is sent through NATO and they pay us in full." - Trump https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/read-trumps-full-2026-state-of-the-union-address#:~:text=And%20everything%20we%20send%20over%20to%20Ukraine%20is%20sent%20through%20NATO%20and%20they%20pay%20us%20in%20full%2E https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/read-trumps-full-2026-... https://app.23degrees.io/embed/j4luMuv8fnpO2frL-bar-grouped-vertical-overtime_allocations https://app.23degrees.io/embed/j4luMuv8fnpO2frL-bar-grouped-...
- brightball 7mo agoAnd at that point the US had already provided about $66 billion directly.
- NicuCalcea 7mo agoSure, that was the old US. The US that's currently invading Iran is not providing free weapons to Ukraine.
- brightball 7mo ago> "And everything we send over to Ukraine is sent through NATO and they pay us in full." - Trump Which the US actively funds…so after a $66 billion advance now the costs are being shared by other vested countries.
- Bender 7mo agowhy are they are not intervening in Ukraine? Russia is already a nuclear power. They are also diminishing as a nation almost as fast as China.