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I'd say being an apartheid state and conducting a live-streamed genocide could possibly be a minor issue. Just a PR issue mind, Lord knows we've given up on our

I'd say being an apartheid state and conducting a live-streamed genocide could possibly be a minor issue. Just a PR issue mind, Lord knows we've given up on our souls long ago.

JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
> conducting a live-streamed genocide For what it's worth, I think the American activists on this issue bungled the messaging to disastrous effect (in the same way we bungled criminal-justice reform). It's a saturated issue with low political salience outside a specific (and increasingly constrained) demographic. A win in Iran will be a short-term boost, in America and in Israel. Then we'll go back to being pissed about rising prices.
- propagandist 7mo ago
  Sure, it's the activists' fault. Not the people who committed this genocide in our government.
- Cyph0n 7mo ago
  The activism worked. Polling shows that support for Israel is dwindling especially among the younger population.
  - flyinglizard 7mo ago
    When it comes to Israel, polling was always lower in younger populations, although yes - the trend worsened. Israel chose to trade popularity for having real geopolitical gains on the ground. Popularity could be won back later, but removing the Iranian ring of fire around it is a real and tangible achievement that would last decades and change the Middle East.
    - Cyph0n 7mo ago
      You make it sound as if Israel merely made a few PR blunders.. They’ve killed 10s of thousands of Palestinian children. This is not salvageable without justice and accountability.
      - flyinglizard 7mo ago
        [flagged]
        Cyph0n 7mo ago
        Not really sure what to say here. Maybe it’s a lack of empathy or imagination because the victims are Palestinians? Perhaps a good thought experiment would be to swap out Israel and Palestine with some other similar (real or fictional) conflict to help you think through your apparent confusion.
        hightrix 7mo ago
        Yes, they did and still do target children. We’ve all seen videos of Israeli soldiers shooting kids that are running away from them in the back. Yes, murder cases for each act of crime against humanity. Yes, Nuremberg style trials for the leaders of the genocide.
        sosomoxie 7mo ago
        They also literally started this attack with a bombing of a girl's school in Iran: https://x.com/ME_Observer_/status/2027787999409266991 https://x.com/ME_Observer_/status/2027787999409266991
        flyinglizard 7mo ago
        That’s not even real, just bullshit used to influence public opinion in the West.
        sosomoxie 7mo ago
    - nebula8804 7mo ago
      Define 'younger populations', millenials are in their 40s now...
- moxifly7 7mo ago
  About a third of American Jews now agree that Israel is an apartheid state and committing genocide against Palestinians. It remains to be seen what impact this will have, but it will certainly impact the ability for everyone to claim that criticism of Israel and sympathy for Palestinians is motivated by antisemitism. The democrats lost the last election in part because of their stance on Israel. With a bit of luck this could lead to a shift in policy within a generation.
- thrance 7mo ago
  American "activists" (didn't know being anti-genocide was a fringe belief but here we are) clearly won the narrative. Most Americans now oppose what Israel is doing in Gaza and want all support to this country to stop ASAP. This support for Israel cost Harris the election, as shown in their latest post-mortem of the 2024 election, and is making Trump and his administration ever more unpopular.
fortzi 7mo ago
[flagged]
- postsantum 7mo ago
  Killing kids on camera, burning people in hospitals alive, running them over in bulldozers is pretty much genocide. You can easily find these videos on internet (I don't recommend watching them even if you watch cartel beheadings for fun)
  - fortzi 7mo ago
    No, these things do not constitute a genocide. Genocide is the purposeful extermination of a people. What you’re describing are other alleged war crimes. While it’s a catchy and horrifying word that’s very useful against Israel, it’s dishonest to use it in this case. All the things you described are indeed horrifying on their own, and I believe there are cases where Israeli forces did some of these things unjustifiably. You must be asking yourself what the hell could be justified. Well, I’ve heard first accounts of kids being sent first as scouts in the battlefield, into a kill box, trying to pinpoint Israeli forces. Once the scout goes back and reports on the force’s location, an accurate barrage of RPGs will be shot at them. You can’t go into the kill box to stop them by arresting them. What would you have done? I do not envy the person that has to make that call, they are now scarred for life. Justified? No? You pick between the life of that kid and the lives of the people under your command. Both choices are bad, this isn’t Hollywood. Most of what you watch is edited purposefully and doesn’t give you any context for the purpose of recruiting the public opinion. It’s working amazingly.
    - bigyabai 7mo ago
      > Most of what you watch is edited purposefully And what you watch is unabridged truth? The American/Israeli media empire is 100x larger than anything Hamas can disseminate. The "media is dishonest" excuse doesn't apply to Hamas any more than it does to the Israeli Military Censor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Military_Censor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Military_Censor

I'd say being an apartheid state and conducting a live-streamed genocide could possibly be a minor issue. Just a PR issue mind, Lord knows we've given up on our souls long ago.

JumpCrisscross 7mo ago

> conducting a live-streamed genocide For what it's worth, I think the American activists on this issue bungled the messaging to disastrous effect (in the same way we bungled criminal-justice reform). It's a saturated issue with low political salience outside a specific (and increasingly constrained) demographic. A win in Iran will be a short-term boost, in America and in Israel. Then we'll go back to being pissed about rising prices.

propagandist 7mo ago
Sure, it's the activists' fault. Not the people who committed this genocide in our government.
Cyph0n 7mo ago
The activism worked. Polling shows that support for Israel is dwindling especially among the younger population.
- flyinglizard 7mo ago
  When it comes to Israel, polling was always lower in younger populations, although yes - the trend worsened. Israel chose to trade popularity for having real geopolitical gains on the ground. Popularity could be won back later, but removing the Iranian ring of fire around it is a real and tangible achievement that would last decades and change the Middle East.
  - Cyph0n 7mo ago
    You make it sound as if Israel merely made a few PR blunders.. They’ve killed 10s of thousands of Palestinian children. This is not salvageable without justice and accountability.
    - flyinglizard 7mo ago
      [flagged]
      - Cyph0n 7mo ago
        Not really sure what to say here. Maybe it’s a lack of empathy or imagination because the victims are Palestinians? Perhaps a good thought experiment would be to swap out Israel and Palestine with some other similar (real or fictional) conflict to help you think through your apparent confusion.
      - hightrix 7mo ago
        Yes, they did and still do target children. We’ve all seen videos of Israeli soldiers shooting kids that are running away from them in the back. Yes, murder cases for each act of crime against humanity. Yes, Nuremberg style trials for the leaders of the genocide.
        sosomoxie 7mo ago
        They also literally started this attack with a bombing of a girl's school in Iran: https://x.com/ME_Observer_/status/2027787999409266991 https://x.com/ME_Observer_/status/2027787999409266991
        flyinglizard 7mo ago
        That’s not even real, just bullshit used to influence public opinion in the West.
        sosomoxie 7mo ago
  - nebula8804 7mo ago
    Define 'younger populations', millenials are in their 40s now...
moxifly7 7mo ago
About a third of American Jews now agree that Israel is an apartheid state and committing genocide against Palestinians. It remains to be seen what impact this will have, but it will certainly impact the ability for everyone to claim that criticism of Israel and sympathy for Palestinians is motivated by antisemitism. The democrats lost the last election in part because of their stance on Israel. With a bit of luck this could lead to a shift in policy within a generation.
thrance 7mo ago
American "activists" (didn't know being anti-genocide was a fringe belief but here we are) clearly won the narrative. Most Americans now oppose what Israel is doing in Gaza and want all support to this country to stop ASAP. This support for Israel cost Harris the election, as shown in their latest post-mortem of the 2024 election, and is making Trump and his administration ever more unpopular.

fortzi 7mo ago

[flagged]

postsantum 7mo ago
Killing kids on camera, burning people in hospitals alive, running them over in bulldozers is pretty much genocide. You can easily find these videos on internet (I don't recommend watching them even if you watch cartel beheadings for fun)
- fortzi 7mo ago
  No, these things do not constitute a genocide. Genocide is the purposeful extermination of a people. What you’re describing are other alleged war crimes. While it’s a catchy and horrifying word that’s very useful against Israel, it’s dishonest to use it in this case. All the things you described are indeed horrifying on their own, and I believe there are cases where Israeli forces did some of these things unjustifiably. You must be asking yourself what the hell could be justified. Well, I’ve heard first accounts of kids being sent first as scouts in the battlefield, into a kill box, trying to pinpoint Israeli forces. Once the scout goes back and reports on the force’s location, an accurate barrage of RPGs will be shot at them. You can’t go into the kill box to stop them by arresting them. What would you have done? I do not envy the person that has to make that call, they are now scarred for life. Justified? No? You pick between the life of that kid and the lives of the people under your command. Both choices are bad, this isn’t Hollywood. Most of what you watch is edited purposefully and doesn’t give you any context for the purpose of recruiting the public opinion. It’s working amazingly.
  - bigyabai 7mo ago
    > Most of what you watch is edited purposefully And what you watch is unabridged truth? The American/Israeli media empire is 100x larger than anything Hamas can disseminate. The "media is dishonest" excuse doesn't apply to Hamas any more than it does to the Israeli Military Censor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Military_Censor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Military_Censor