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Iraq was attacking its neighbors every couple of years, Iran is not. Iran has shown that it is remarkably sane actually, given the aggression shown towards it

by Matl 7mo ago

Iraq was attacking its neighbors every couple of years, Iran is not. Iran has shown that it is remarkably sane actually, given the aggression shown towards it by Israel and the US and has made a lot of efforts to reach a deal. Remember, it was the US that exited the JCPOA and now it wants Iran to give up all its misses so that they would be defenseless. I have no love for theocracies, but I do think the Iranian system is a lot better than the likes of Saudi Arabia, which we're buddy buddy with. Oh and I guess the founder of Syrian branch of AQ and deputy head of ISIS running Syria is better that what was before too, in your book?

tonyedgecombe 7mo ago
>Iraq was attacking its neighbors every couple of years, Iran is not. Nonsense. Iran has been stirring up trouble in the region for a long time.
- Matl 7mo ago
  Indeed, Israel just wants to occupy the Palestinians in peace. Perhaps you forgot that it was Iraq who attacked Iran and Kuwait while Iran attacked no country but hey.
  - tonyedgecombe 7mo ago
    You do realise both Israel and Iran can be bad actors in this space?
jonnybgood 7mo ago
Iran attacks its neighbors through proxies: Hizbollah, Houthis, Shiite militias, and Hamas. These groups are armed and funded by Iran.
- Matl 7mo ago
  Oh yes, and the fact that Israel is just sitting there occupying millions of Palestinians, attacking Syria, Lebanon etc. despite a 'ceasefire' has nothing to do with why these groups continue to exist, I am sure. Iran's funding for these groups is a part of its 'defense in depth' strategy since it doesn't have the capability to project power otherwise. I am not saying that it is the right thing to do, but I am also not that surprised that backed into a corner, they're trying to build regional proxies. It's not like the US and Israel are not doing the same in and around Iran. But I like how these statements, like yours, are always made with zero context and hope for an uninformed audience to upvote them.
  - JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
    > Iran's funding for these groups is a part of its 'defense in depth' strategy That's the rationalisation. Not a justification. Defence in depth was Hitler's rationale for invading Russia, is Israel's strategy for pacifying neighbors, and is Russia's excuse for invading Ukraine. Creating weak neighbors is checklist-item one for any classical aspiring land empire. It's also tremendously destabilising to its neighbourhood. (It's not a coincidence that China and Russia are bordered by (a) shitshows or (b) countries militarily posturing against them.)
    - Matl 7mo ago
      > Hitler's rationale Ah yes, give any discussion enough time and Hitler inevitably gets to be whoever your opponent is. Unlike Hitler, unlike Israel and unlike the US, Iran has not proactively attacked. Hitler had no reason to fear attack from Russia, Czechoslovakia or France. Iran has every reason to fear an attack from the US and Israel, look at what is happening right now ffs. Western governments provide funding and shelter for extremist Iranian groups like People's Mojahedin Organization of Iran and various separatists movements inside the country, so please spare me this Hitler nonsense.
      - JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
        > give any discussion enough time and Hitler inevitably gets to be whoever your opponent is Because it fits. Nazi Germany was an aspiring land power. You can see the same effect in Imperial Rome and the Persian empires. (And, while America was conquering its own continent, on the peripheries of Manifest-Destiny America.) > Unlike Hitler, unlike Israel and unlike the US, Iran has not proactively attacked Of course they have. Its proxies are constantly proactively attacking everyone in their neighbourhood. > Hitler had no reason to fear attack from Russia, Czechoslovakia or France. Iran has every reason to fear an attack from the US and Israel, look at what is happening right now ffs Everyone has reason to fear attack from everyone. Defence in depth is a regionally-destabilising response to that security imperative. And by the way, Russia and Germany did wind up going to war with each other. Same as Iran and Israel, that same one whose anihiliation the former has been chanting for since its revolution. Arguing Iran has been some peaceful country minding its own business is totally inaccurate.
rwyinuse 7mo ago
Iranian government massacres its own civilians whenever they dare to demand change. Iranians are also largely secular compared to citizens of most Arab states, and hate their government. They're also mostly Shia, which makes it hard for likes of ISIS and Al Qaeda to gain ground there, as Shias are enemies to Sunni extremists. I believe there's a much better change of democracy / sane regime in Iran, than there ever was in Iraq and other Arab states.
Veen 7mo ago
Iran attacks through its proxies.
- Matl 7mo ago
  Mossad was literally bragging that it is handing out weapons in Iran recently, but yes, Iran always 'attacks' for no reason and should not do anything no matter what happens right? Same as the Gaza and Lebanon ceasefires where one side stops attacking and the other (Israel) keeps bombing? I see how this works.
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by Matl 7mo ago

tonyedgecombe 7mo ago

>Iraq was attacking its neighbors every couple of years, Iran is not. Nonsense. Iran has been stirring up trouble in the region for a long time.

Matl 7mo ago
Indeed, Israel just wants to occupy the Palestinians in peace. Perhaps you forgot that it was Iraq who attacked Iran and Kuwait while Iran attacked no country but hey.
- tonyedgecombe 7mo ago
  You do realise both Israel and Iran can be bad actors in this space?

jonnybgood 7mo ago

Iran attacks its neighbors through proxies: Hizbollah, Houthis, Shiite militias, and Hamas. These groups are armed and funded by Iran.

Matl 7mo ago
Oh yes, and the fact that Israel is just sitting there occupying millions of Palestinians, attacking Syria, Lebanon etc. despite a 'ceasefire' has nothing to do with why these groups continue to exist, I am sure. Iran's funding for these groups is a part of its 'defense in depth' strategy since it doesn't have the capability to project power otherwise. I am not saying that it is the right thing to do, but I am also not that surprised that backed into a corner, they're trying to build regional proxies. It's not like the US and Israel are not doing the same in and around Iran. But I like how these statements, like yours, are always made with zero context and hope for an uninformed audience to upvote them.
- JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
  > Iran's funding for these groups is a part of its 'defense in depth' strategy That's the rationalisation. Not a justification. Defence in depth was Hitler's rationale for invading Russia, is Israel's strategy for pacifying neighbors, and is Russia's excuse for invading Ukraine. Creating weak neighbors is checklist-item one for any classical aspiring land empire. It's also tremendously destabilising to its neighbourhood. (It's not a coincidence that China and Russia are bordered by (a) shitshows or (b) countries militarily posturing against them.)
  - Matl 7mo ago
    > Hitler's rationale Ah yes, give any discussion enough time and Hitler inevitably gets to be whoever your opponent is. Unlike Hitler, unlike Israel and unlike the US, Iran has not proactively attacked. Hitler had no reason to fear attack from Russia, Czechoslovakia or France. Iran has every reason to fear an attack from the US and Israel, look at what is happening right now ffs. Western governments provide funding and shelter for extremist Iranian groups like People's Mojahedin Organization of Iran and various separatists movements inside the country, so please spare me this Hitler nonsense.
    - JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
      > give any discussion enough time and Hitler inevitably gets to be whoever your opponent is Because it fits. Nazi Germany was an aspiring land power. You can see the same effect in Imperial Rome and the Persian empires. (And, while America was conquering its own continent, on the peripheries of Manifest-Destiny America.) > Unlike Hitler, unlike Israel and unlike the US, Iran has not proactively attacked Of course they have. Its proxies are constantly proactively attacking everyone in their neighbourhood. > Hitler had no reason to fear attack from Russia, Czechoslovakia or France. Iran has every reason to fear an attack from the US and Israel, look at what is happening right now ffs Everyone has reason to fear attack from everyone. Defence in depth is a regionally-destabilising response to that security imperative. And by the way, Russia and Germany did wind up going to war with each other. Same as Iran and Israel, that same one whose anihiliation the former has been chanting for since its revolution. Arguing Iran has been some peaceful country minding its own business is totally inaccurate.

rwyinuse 7mo ago

Iranian government massacres its own civilians whenever they dare to demand change. Iranians are also largely secular compared to citizens of most Arab states, and hate their government. They're also mostly Shia, which makes it hard for likes of ISIS and Al Qaeda to gain ground there, as Shias are enemies to Sunni extremists. I believe there's a much better change of democracy / sane regime in Iran, than there ever was in Iraq and other Arab states.

Veen 7mo ago

Iran attacks through its proxies.

Matl 7mo ago
Mossad was literally bragging that it is handing out weapons in Iran recently, but yes, Iran always 'attacks' for no reason and should not do anything no matter what happens right? Same as the Gaza and Lebanon ceasefires where one side stops attacking and the other (Israel) keeps bombing? I see how this works.
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