4 ms·
Does Iran not have the same rights of self-defense and sovereignty as the US and Israel? > The point is preventing another North Korea style nuclear blackmail
by nielsbot 8mo ago
Does Iran not have the same rights of self-defense and sovereignty as the US and Israel?
> The point is preventing another North Korea style nuclear blackmail state
The US and Israel are currently nuclear blackmail states. The rational move for Iran to prevent itself from being bullied is to have nukes like North Korea.
> In this situation it is a fair request by the US
Fair if you're the US, sure.
- iknowstuff 8mo ago190 countries signed the non proliferation treaty for a very good reason, so no they don’t have the right to it in any sense of the word on the international stage. Especially not when they’re mass murdering protestors and funding islamic extremism left and right
- blurbleblurble 8mo agoOkay so neither then does Israel yet here we are a country with illicit nuclear weapons that murdered scores of thousands of civilians has what standing to do what now?
- azernik 8mo agoIsrael never signed the NPT, like India and Pakistan.
- blurbleblurble 8mo agoOh wow cool even more unhinged than I realized
- iknowstuff 8mo agoOpposition to Iran’s regime does not imply support for Israel’s
- locallost 8mo agoThe US is also murdering protesters and funding Christian extremists. So what now?
- iknowstuff 8mo ago[flagged]
- locallost 8mo agoNext up, Hannibal Lector marches for change of regime in I-ran and better life for I-ranians. When asked if that's not a bit odd, he says, get back at me when my crimes are on a similar scale.
- iknowstuff 8mo agoThere was no “go kill protestors” order given here.
- Hikikomori 8mo agoSo around November.
- TheAlchemist 8mo agoThey actually do. And I say it as a European and I think the Iranian regime is as bad as it gets, and won't shed a tear if they all get executed. What recent months show us, is that it's a rough world - there are no friends. I'm rooting for European countries to accelerate their nuclear weapons programs. In an ideal world, of course I would be against. But the world is far from ideal. The current alternative is being dictated the rules by Donald Trump or Vladimir Putin. Thanks, but no.
- haritha-j 8mo agoAs opposed to America who are only non-mass murdering protestors.
- HappyPanacea 8mo ago> Does Iran not have the same rights of self-defense and sovereignty as the US and Israel? Iran signed Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty
- general1465 8mo agoAnd US signed Budapest Memorandum. Both are equally hollow.
- t-3 8mo agoThe former government, a US puppet regime. Why should they honor a deal that doesn't benefit them when the US and Israel refuse to play by the rules?
- ReptileMan 8mo ago>Does Iran not have the same rights of self-defense and sovereignty as the US and Israel? No. If they wanted self-defense and sovereignty they should have become stronger not weaker after the revolution.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- _zagj 8mo ago> The rational move for Iran to prevent itself from being bullied is to have nukes like North Korea North Korea invaded South Korea, stole a US Navy ship (the Pueblo, which they still proudly exhibit), dug large infiltration tunnels under the DMZ, kidnapped hundreds, or even thousands people from SK (and Japan, to a lesser extent), and have assassinated, or attempted to assassinate, multiple SK heads of state, and perpetrated acts of terror like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Flight_858 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Flight_858 What did the US or SK do to them before their nuclear program that constituted "bullying?"
- azernik 8mo agoIran signed the NPT. The NPT did not exist at the time of the US developing nuclear weapons, and it explicitly allows US (and other pre-existing nuclear powers') weapons. Israel, like India and Pakistan, simply never signed it, forgoing the international nuclear technology market as a consequence but also avoiding a treaty obligation not to develop them.
- t-3 8mo agoThat was before the revolution. The revolutionary government still honored the deal, but that's been obviously a losing move for a while. The whole Middle East recognizes that, just look at how many countries Pakistan has sharing agreements with recently.
- azernik 8mo agoTreaty obligations do not disappear with a revolution
- t-3 8mo agoThey might not disappear, but it's more like loan sharks insisting you must inherit your father's gambling debts than anything. The US and Israel have absolutely no place criticizing others for breaking agreements in any case.
- randunel 8mo agoSuch as the Paris Agreement, right?
- azernik 8mo agoThe Paris Agreement included an explicit clause allowing parties to exit it after giving notice of withdrawal. It did not go out of effect immediately on Trump's election, but the administration went through the legal procedure. The NPT has much stricter terms for withdrawal, which in any case Iran has not followed. (The better and much more relevant analogy would be the JCPOA. That's what happens when the US does foreign policy by "executive agreement" instead of treaty. Foreign countries should not value them more than the paper they're written on.)
- bawolff 8mo ago> The US and Israel are currently nuclear blackmail states. Neither of these states have at any point said anything on the modern era that can be implied to be a threat to nuke anybody. Part of that is because it would be a bad strategy for them, but nonetheless "nuclear blackmail state" and "nuclear state" is not the same thing.
- Hikikomori 8mo agoTrump had done it several times.
- voidfunc 8mo ago[flagged]
- haritha-j 8mo agoWhy exactly do you suppose the US gets away with carrying out military attack or threatening to carry out military attack against a new country every couple of months?
- bawolff 8mo agoBecause of their conventional military.
- incrudible 8mo agoNo such right exists, except in moral terms, but if you are going to invoke morals, the Iranian regime does not hold up well. So no, they do not. Perhaps you will argue that the US or Israel or Pakistan or North Korea have conducted themselves in a way where they do not have that moral right either, but that is a different debate, and either way it is moot because they do have them.
- concinds 8mo agoDictatorships have no "rights". People have rights.
- halflife 8mo ago[flagged]
- RobertoG 8mo agoAre you saying that the USA have 'human peace' as a goal? Where have you been the last 50 years? Mars?
- amunozo 8mo agoAnd it's precisely the US who's not acting rationally nor have any goals for human peace.
- halflife 8mo agoSo you rather have a world controlled by the Chinese axis?
- surgical_fire 8mo ago"Chinese axis". In many ways I think it would be better than the world controlled by the US axis. Then again, I am not from the US nor Israel nor any muslim country. I just hope the countries I care about stay out of this Iran deal. This would allow me to quietly hope that Iran somehow wins this in the long run. I have this tendency of supporting the aggressed party in uneven conflicts.
- halflife 8mo agoIf you are living in a western country, you are talking out of extreme privilege and zero sense. Automatically presuming that the weak side is the morally right is such a skewed an naive world view.
- surgical_fire 8mo agoI presume no such thing. I never implied morality to the Iranian government. However, in this case, the US-Israel axis is undoubtedly the agressor, and morally indefensible. In the Russian invasion against Ukraine, I can hope Ukraine succeedes without ascribing morality to the Ukrainian government.