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We can get videos from remote hellholes of Africa like Dafur and Mali but apparently,that's too much to ask in Xinjiang.We can't even get satellite images to sh

by MaxPock 7mo ago

We can get videos from remote hellholes of Africa like Dafur and Mali but apparently,that's too much to ask in Xinjiang.We can't even get satellite images to show us evidence of this so called wigur genocide

sarchertech 7mo ago
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-01/satellite-images-expose-chinas-network-of-re-education-camps/10432924 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-01/satellite-images-expo... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/85qihtvw6e/the-faces-from-chinas-uyghur-detention-camps https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/85qihtvw6e/the-faces-from-c...
- xanthor 7mo ago
  If you didn't have British Crown state media wrapping a narrative around these images you wouldn't think anything of them.
  - sarchertech 7mo ago
    Would you take a group of Swiss journalists? https://gijn.org/stories/interview-uyghur-victims-xinjiang-prison-camps/ https://gijn.org/stories/interview-uyghur-victims-xinjiang-p... How about the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights?
    - xanthor 7mo ago
      Why should I take the claims of journalists without evidence?
      - fc417fc802 7mo ago
        Because it's their job? Because it's corroborated by multiple other journalists and even a UN report? Why should I take the denials of a pseudnonymous online account without evidence?
        xanthor 7mo ago
        Can you imagine a journalist who would lie for any possible reason?
        sarchertech 7mo ago
        Can you imagine hundreds of journalists who would lie to promote a false story that hasn't really been all that effective and harming China (the only possible motivation for such a campaign). And not a single one of the journalists approached by the creators of this campaign leaked anything. If this really was a massive conspiracy theory, that itself is a much much bigger story than the Chinese rounding up people that most of the world don't seem to care about. One of those hundreds of journalists wouldn't have been able to resist such a scoop. I'm guessing the next part of your conspiracy theory is that the conspiracy group is so powerful that everyone is scared to come forward. But if they are that powerful, why construct such an ineffective anti-china story? Surely such a powerful group could construct something more damaging.
        xanthor 7mo ago
        That's a very outdated model for how conspiracies work. Why would it be necessary to bribe and threaten journalists working at these organizations? They genuinely believe in the project of the US financial, military, and cultural empire. They went to the same schools and were socialized with the same core beliefs as the people in US government and high finance or those running the intelligence agencies and military-industrial complex. They wouldn't have the opportunity to work at these 'news' organizations if they had worldviews that were radically incompatible. Likewise, I don't believe anyone is coercing you to push these ideas online. I believe I could drill down on every single source and claim, and your fundamental beliefs about this question would remain the same. Proximity to and dependence upon established institutions exerts an inexorable gravity on worldview. It determines one's social circle and path to advancement in every area of life. Those inside the bubble feel themselves to be 'free thinkers', but one who strays outside the acceptable range of beliefs and ideas will immediately experience a sharp discontinuity in this 'freedom'.
      - sarchertech 7mo ago
        So here’s some of the evidence that we have The Xinjiang Police Files: A 2022 leak of over 5,000 police photos, internal documents, and spreadsheets revealing the scale of detention, with images showing prisoners shackled, hooded, and under guard in 2018. The China Cables (2019): Leaked, classified instructions on how to run the camps, including directives to ensure "no escapes" promote "repentance" and use full video surveillance. Satellite Imagery Analysis: Researchers from the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) identified over 380 suspected detention sites, including new construction and expansion, often featuring guard towers and razor wire. Testimonies and Research: Former detainees have reported torture, rape, forced sterilization, and intense indoctrination to abandon their religious and cultural practices. Government Documentation: The Karakax list, a leaked document, provided detailed, case-by-case justifications for detention, such as having too many children or wearing a veil. Are you this incredulous when someone reports that the US locks up more Black people capita than White? Someone defending the US could make the same claims you are that everyone is out to make the US look bad. That multiple independent groups are fabricating evidence etc…
        jjcc 7mo ago
        I would suggest: 1. give links or one link to the collection of above "evidence" to let others to get conclusion by their own. BTW, I've seen some ("Leaked, classified instructions...) but easily get different interpretation. 2. Also using "I" is better than "We". That means you get your conclusion, not representing others.
        sarchertech 7mo ago
        1. I've provided a half dozen links in this thread. Feel free to google for more if you want them. Most of the people I'm replying to will respond with some variation of "funded by nefarious group x" regardless of what links are posted. 2. Lecturing random people you meet like they're a freshman English student is patronizing.
Thlom 7mo ago
On the other hand you can travel to Xinjiang, visit mosques, Uighur museums, experience Uighur culture, observe Uighurs just minding their own business in their daily life.
- sarchertech 7mo ago
  “Subjected to arbitrary arrests and forced labor, sterilizations to torture, more than one million Uyghurs, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, and other minorities are estimated to have been locked up in so-called “re-education” camps and prisons in the region over the last decade, according to the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights.” https://gijn.org/stories/interview-uyghur-victims-xinjiang-prison-camps/ https://gijn.org/stories/interview-uyghur-victims-xinjiang-p...
  - xanthor 7mo ago
    UN High Commissioner on Human Rights Michelle Bachelet actually visited Xinjiang and made no such assertions. Whoever did release the report you're referencing, they waited until immediately after her term ended to release it (within hours). Pretty conspicuous.
    - sarchertech 7mo ago
      No it was actually released hours before her term ended not after. And the reason she held off releasing until the last minute is because of pressure from China to refrain from releasing it. In addition to releasing the report she released a 131 page Chinese rebuttal simultaneously. Not the actions one would expect of a shadowy group at the UN out to get China.
      - xanthor 7mo ago
        No it was released Sept 1 Geneva time, and her term ended Aug 31.
        sarchertech 7mo ago

by MaxPock 7mo ago

sarchertech 7mo ago

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-01/satellite-images-expose-chinas-network-of-re-education-camps/10432924 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-01/satellite-images-expo... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/85qihtvw6e/the-faces-from-chinas-uyghur-detention-camps https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/85qihtvw6e/the-faces-from-c...

xanthor 7mo ago
If you didn't have British Crown state media wrapping a narrative around these images you wouldn't think anything of them.
- sarchertech 7mo ago
  Would you take a group of Swiss journalists? https://gijn.org/stories/interview-uyghur-victims-xinjiang-prison-camps/ https://gijn.org/stories/interview-uyghur-victims-xinjiang-p... How about the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights?
  - xanthor 7mo ago
    Why should I take the claims of journalists without evidence?
    - fc417fc802 7mo ago
      Because it's their job? Because it's corroborated by multiple other journalists and even a UN report? Why should I take the denials of a pseudnonymous online account without evidence?
      - xanthor 7mo ago
        Can you imagine a journalist who would lie for any possible reason?
        sarchertech 7mo ago
        Can you imagine hundreds of journalists who would lie to promote a false story that hasn't really been all that effective and harming China (the only possible motivation for such a campaign). And not a single one of the journalists approached by the creators of this campaign leaked anything. If this really was a massive conspiracy theory, that itself is a much much bigger story than the Chinese rounding up people that most of the world don't seem to care about. One of those hundreds of journalists wouldn't have been able to resist such a scoop. I'm guessing the next part of your conspiracy theory is that the conspiracy group is so powerful that everyone is scared to come forward. But if they are that powerful, why construct such an ineffective anti-china story? Surely such a powerful group could construct something more damaging.
        xanthor 7mo ago
        That's a very outdated model for how conspiracies work. Why would it be necessary to bribe and threaten journalists working at these organizations? They genuinely believe in the project of the US financial, military, and cultural empire. They went to the same schools and were socialized with the same core beliefs as the people in US government and high finance or those running the intelligence agencies and military-industrial complex. They wouldn't have the opportunity to work at these 'news' organizations if they had worldviews that were radically incompatible. Likewise, I don't believe anyone is coercing you to push these ideas online. I believe I could drill down on every single source and claim, and your fundamental beliefs about this question would remain the same. Proximity to and dependence upon established institutions exerts an inexorable gravity on worldview. It determines one's social circle and path to advancement in every area of life. Those inside the bubble feel themselves to be 'free thinkers', but one who strays outside the acceptable range of beliefs and ideas will immediately experience a sharp discontinuity in this 'freedom'.
    - sarchertech 7mo ago
      So here’s some of the evidence that we have The Xinjiang Police Files: A 2022 leak of over 5,000 police photos, internal documents, and spreadsheets revealing the scale of detention, with images showing prisoners shackled, hooded, and under guard in 2018. The China Cables (2019): Leaked, classified instructions on how to run the camps, including directives to ensure "no escapes" promote "repentance" and use full video surveillance. Satellite Imagery Analysis: Researchers from the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) identified over 380 suspected detention sites, including new construction and expansion, often featuring guard towers and razor wire. Testimonies and Research: Former detainees have reported torture, rape, forced sterilization, and intense indoctrination to abandon their religious and cultural practices. Government Documentation: The Karakax list, a leaked document, provided detailed, case-by-case justifications for detention, such as having too many children or wearing a veil. Are you this incredulous when someone reports that the US locks up more Black people capita than White? Someone defending the US could make the same claims you are that everyone is out to make the US look bad. That multiple independent groups are fabricating evidence etc…
      - jjcc 7mo ago
        I would suggest: 1. give links or one link to the collection of above "evidence" to let others to get conclusion by their own. BTW, I've seen some ("Leaked, classified instructions...) but easily get different interpretation. 2. Also using "I" is better than "We". That means you get your conclusion, not representing others.
        sarchertech 7mo ago
        1. I've provided a half dozen links in this thread. Feel free to google for more if you want them. Most of the people I'm replying to will respond with some variation of "funded by nefarious group x" regardless of what links are posted. 2. Lecturing random people you meet like they're a freshman English student is patronizing.

Thlom 7mo ago

On the other hand you can travel to Xinjiang, visit mosques, Uighur museums, experience Uighur culture, observe Uighurs just minding their own business in their daily life.

sarchertech 7mo ago
“Subjected to arbitrary arrests and forced labor, sterilizations to torture, more than one million Uyghurs, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, and other minorities are estimated to have been locked up in so-called “re-education” camps and prisons in the region over the last decade, according to the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights.” https://gijn.org/stories/interview-uyghur-victims-xinjiang-prison-camps/ https://gijn.org/stories/interview-uyghur-victims-xinjiang-p...
- xanthor 7mo ago
  UN High Commissioner on Human Rights Michelle Bachelet actually visited Xinjiang and made no such assertions. Whoever did release the report you're referencing, they waited until immediately after her term ended to release it (within hours). Pretty conspicuous.
  - sarchertech 7mo ago
    No it was actually released hours before her term ended not after. And the reason she held off releasing until the last minute is because of pressure from China to refrain from releasing it. In addition to releasing the report she released a 131 page Chinese rebuttal simultaneously. Not the actions one would expect of a shadowy group at the UN out to get China.
    - xanthor 7mo ago
      No it was released Sept 1 Geneva time, and her term ended Aug 31.
      - sarchertech 7mo ago