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>And as for foreigners, our view of China is far worse than it actually is, China doesn’t need to hide anything, people who visit China will come away with a mo

>And as for foreigners, our view of China is far worse than it actually is, China doesn’t need to hide anything, people who visit China will come away with a more positive view of the country than those who do not visit. To the extent that's true, it's because they won't let you see the uyghur reeducation camps.

hungryhobo 8mo ago
[flagged]
- sarchertech 8mo ago
  https://www.icij.org/investigations/china-cables/beijings-backtrack-on-xinjiang-detention-camps-spurred-by-icij-investigation-research-finds/ https://www.icij.org/investigations/china-cables/beijings-ba...
MaxPock 8mo ago
We can get videos from remote hellholes of Africa like Dafur and Mali but apparently,that's too much to ask in Xinjiang.We can't even get satellite images to show us evidence of this so called wigur genocide
- sarchertech 8mo ago
  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-01/satellite-images-expose-chinas-network-of-re-education-camps/10432924 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-01/satellite-images-expo... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/85qihtvw6e/the-faces-from-chinas-uyghur-detention-camps https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/85qihtvw6e/the-faces-from-c...
  - xanthor 8mo ago
    If you didn't have British Crown state media wrapping a narrative around these images you wouldn't think anything of them.
    - sarchertech 8mo ago
      Would you take a group of Swiss journalists? https://gijn.org/stories/interview-uyghur-victims-xinjiang-prison-camps/ https://gijn.org/stories/interview-uyghur-victims-xinjiang-p... How about the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights?
      - xanthor 8mo ago
        Why should I take the claims of journalists without evidence?
        fc417fc802 8mo ago
        Because it's their job? Because it's corroborated by multiple other journalists and even a UN report? Why should I take the denials of a pseudnonymous online account without evidence?
        xanthor 8mo ago
        Can you imagine a journalist who would lie for any possible reason?
        sarchertech 8mo ago
        Can you imagine hundreds of journalists who would lie to promote a false story that hasn't really been all that effective and harming China (the only possible motivation for such a campaign). And not a single one of the journalists approached by the creators of this campaign leaked anything. If this really was a massive conspiracy theory, that itself is a much much bigger story than the Chinese rounding up people that most of the world don't seem to care about. One of those hundreds of journalists wouldn't have been able to resist such a scoop. I'm guessing the next part of your conspiracy theory is that the conspiracy group is so powerful that everyone is scared to come forward. But if they are that powerful, why construct such an ineffective anti-china story? Surely such a powerful group could construct something more damaging.
- Thlom 8mo ago
  On the other hand you can travel to Xinjiang, visit mosques, Uighur museums, experience Uighur culture, observe Uighurs just minding their own business in their daily life.
  - sarchertech 8mo ago
    “Subjected to arbitrary arrests and forced labor, sterilizations to torture, more than one million Uyghurs, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, and other minorities are estimated to have been locked up in so-called “re-education” camps and prisons in the region over the last decade, according to the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights.” https://gijn.org/stories/interview-uyghur-victims-xinjiang-prison-camps/ https://gijn.org/stories/interview-uyghur-victims-xinjiang-p...
    - xanthor 8mo ago
      UN High Commissioner on Human Rights Michelle Bachelet actually visited Xinjiang and made no such assertions. Whoever did release the report you're referencing, they waited until immediately after her term ended to release it (within hours). Pretty conspicuous.
      - sarchertech 8mo ago
        No it was actually released hours before her term ended not after. And the reason she held off releasing until the last minute is because of pressure from China to refrain from releasing it. In addition to releasing the report she released a 131 page Chinese rebuttal simultaneously. Not the actions one would expect of a shadowy group at the UN out to get China.
        xanthor 8mo ago
        No it was released Sept 1 Geneva time, and her term ended Aug 31.
        sarchertech 8mo ago
analog8374 8mo ago
What's the coordinates? I want to look at it on Google maps
- sarchertech 8mo ago
  Here you go https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/map/ https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/map/?
  - hungryhobo 8mo ago
    nice, funded by ASPI, that's all i needed to know
    - sarchertech 8mo ago
      There could be a grand global conspiracy to push this story about how the Chinese are persecuting the Uyghurs, involving the US government, the Australian government, the United Nations, France, the UK, A Swiss journalism consortium, private companies, thousands of Chinese expats, satellite companies, newspapers, and television reports, which seems to have very little payoff because most people don't care about it at all. Or it could be that the same government of China that less than 40 years ago admitted to killing 200 protesters and likely killed at least 2500, has severe restrictions on religious freedom, and is known for targeting family members of activists and dissidents, is also rounding up and reeducating members of a very publicly troublesome minority group. They have a well documented history of similar tactics in Tibet over the last 75 years or so. I mean there have been over 150 Tibetans who have self immolated just in the last decade and a half as a protest against Chinese actions in Tibet. I can't think of very many acts of self-immolation protests where the target government wasn't doing something untoward, much less when there's an average of 10 per year. Given the recent history of the Chinese government response to dissidents, and the terrorist attacks perpetuated by Uyghurs in the 2010s, I'd honestly be surprised if China didn't do something similar to what is alleged.
      - hungryhobo 8mo ago
        Nah just the lunatic Adrian Zenz. Feel free to ignore the fact Muslim countries actually visited xinjiang and agreed there was no concentration camps. Like believe the crap you want, but Uighur language is literally on display in every road sign, every metro station, every shop. Xinjiang has the highest density of mosques in the world. College admissions offer incentives to people of Uighur origin. Ppl can just go to xinjiang and see it for themselves

hungryhobo 8mo ago

[flagged]

sarchertech 8mo ago
https://www.icij.org/investigations/china-cables/beijings-backtrack-on-xinjiang-detention-camps-spurred-by-icij-investigation-research-finds/ https://www.icij.org/investigations/china-cables/beijings-ba...

MaxPock 8mo ago

We can get videos from remote hellholes of Africa like Dafur and Mali but apparently,that's too much to ask in Xinjiang.We can't even get satellite images to show us evidence of this so called wigur genocide

sarchertech 8mo ago
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-01/satellite-images-expose-chinas-network-of-re-education-camps/10432924 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-01/satellite-images-expo... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/85qihtvw6e/the-faces-from-chinas-uyghur-detention-camps https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/85qihtvw6e/the-faces-from-c...
- xanthor 8mo ago
  If you didn't have British Crown state media wrapping a narrative around these images you wouldn't think anything of them.
  - sarchertech 8mo ago
    Would you take a group of Swiss journalists? https://gijn.org/stories/interview-uyghur-victims-xinjiang-prison-camps/ https://gijn.org/stories/interview-uyghur-victims-xinjiang-p... How about the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights?
    - xanthor 8mo ago
      Why should I take the claims of journalists without evidence?
      - fc417fc802 8mo ago
        Because it's their job? Because it's corroborated by multiple other journalists and even a UN report? Why should I take the denials of a pseudnonymous online account without evidence?
        xanthor 8mo ago
        Can you imagine a journalist who would lie for any possible reason?
        sarchertech 8mo ago
        Can you imagine hundreds of journalists who would lie to promote a false story that hasn't really been all that effective and harming China (the only possible motivation for such a campaign). And not a single one of the journalists approached by the creators of this campaign leaked anything. If this really was a massive conspiracy theory, that itself is a much much bigger story than the Chinese rounding up people that most of the world don't seem to care about. One of those hundreds of journalists wouldn't have been able to resist such a scoop. I'm guessing the next part of your conspiracy theory is that the conspiracy group is so powerful that everyone is scared to come forward. But if they are that powerful, why construct such an ineffective anti-china story? Surely such a powerful group could construct something more damaging.
Thlom 8mo ago
On the other hand you can travel to Xinjiang, visit mosques, Uighur museums, experience Uighur culture, observe Uighurs just minding their own business in their daily life.
- sarchertech 8mo ago
  “Subjected to arbitrary arrests and forced labor, sterilizations to torture, more than one million Uyghurs, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, and other minorities are estimated to have been locked up in so-called “re-education” camps and prisons in the region over the last decade, according to the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights.” https://gijn.org/stories/interview-uyghur-victims-xinjiang-prison-camps/ https://gijn.org/stories/interview-uyghur-victims-xinjiang-p...
  - xanthor 8mo ago
    UN High Commissioner on Human Rights Michelle Bachelet actually visited Xinjiang and made no such assertions. Whoever did release the report you're referencing, they waited until immediately after her term ended to release it (within hours). Pretty conspicuous.
    - sarchertech 8mo ago
      No it was actually released hours before her term ended not after. And the reason she held off releasing until the last minute is because of pressure from China to refrain from releasing it. In addition to releasing the report she released a 131 page Chinese rebuttal simultaneously. Not the actions one would expect of a shadowy group at the UN out to get China.
      - xanthor 8mo ago
        No it was released Sept 1 Geneva time, and her term ended Aug 31.
        sarchertech 8mo ago

analog8374 8mo ago

What's the coordinates? I want to look at it on Google maps

sarchertech 8mo ago
Here you go https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/map/ https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/map/?
- hungryhobo 8mo ago
  nice, funded by ASPI, that's all i needed to know
  - sarchertech 8mo ago
    There could be a grand global conspiracy to push this story about how the Chinese are persecuting the Uyghurs, involving the US government, the Australian government, the United Nations, France, the UK, A Swiss journalism consortium, private companies, thousands of Chinese expats, satellite companies, newspapers, and television reports, which seems to have very little payoff because most people don't care about it at all. Or it could be that the same government of China that less than 40 years ago admitted to killing 200 protesters and likely killed at least 2500, has severe restrictions on religious freedom, and is known for targeting family members of activists and dissidents, is also rounding up and reeducating members of a very publicly troublesome minority group. They have a well documented history of similar tactics in Tibet over the last 75 years or so. I mean there have been over 150 Tibetans who have self immolated just in the last decade and a half as a protest against Chinese actions in Tibet. I can't think of very many acts of self-immolation protests where the target government wasn't doing something untoward, much less when there's an average of 10 per year. Given the recent history of the Chinese government response to dissidents, and the terrorist attacks perpetuated by Uyghurs in the 2010s, I'd honestly be surprised if China didn't do something similar to what is alleged.
    - hungryhobo 8mo ago
      Nah just the lunatic Adrian Zenz. Feel free to ignore the fact Muslim countries actually visited xinjiang and agreed there was no concentration camps. Like believe the crap you want, but Uighur language is literally on display in every road sign, every metro station, every shop. Xinjiang has the highest density of mosques in the world. College admissions offer incentives to people of Uighur origin. Ppl can just go to xinjiang and see it for themselves