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If nobody invested in OpenAI how long could they keep the lights on? They're not profitable yet, and a lot of the wealth that Sam Altman seems to be making revo

If nobody invested in OpenAI how long could they keep the lights on? They're not profitable yet, and a lot of the wealth that Sam Altman seems to be making revolves around strange circular deals. By comparison, Anthropic is projected to break even in 2028. Google's Gemini is already profitable.

ai_fry_ur_brain 8mo ago
[flagged]
- giancarlostoro 8mo ago
  The title and escrow industry is using Gemini (via Qualia Clear) enough so that Qualia accounts for 100 billions of token usage in about 3 months. Just because you don't see who is using it, and how, doesn't mean that when the dust settles, the people actually using AI for real purposes wont keep using AI. I'm not sure which AI models big pharma is using, but there's already at least one new pharmaceutical drug in the secondary testing phase, showing strong results. There will definitely be room for AI. OpenAI is just not really showing that they care about a particular business model. Probably a strong indicator that Sam Altman is probably the worst person to lead that company. Anthropic will be profitable before OpenAI ever will be. Gemini is in the green in terms of spending / income ratio FYI. I'm not talking about stocks.
- richwater 8mo ago
  > Especially when that military is the reincarnation of Nazi Germany , and a fourth Reich (The USA) I can't believe people who think this actually exist.
  - milutinovici 8mo ago
    Have you watched the news recently?
    - Mountain_Skies 8mo ago
      Do you know any history? You dishonor the people who died from horrible atrocities in WWII to make some glib performative political posturing. It's shameful behavior. Do better. Be better.
      - deleted 8mo ago
        [deleted]
      - rubyn00bie 8mo ago
        WWII didn’t start overnight. The Sturmabteilung (SA), also known as “The Brownshirts,” have a strong similarity to what we’re seeing with ICE and CBP. The SA were Hitler’s enforcers before the SS, during the 1920s and early 1930s. They were eventually usurped by the SS during “Night of the Long Knives” where SA leadership were executed by the SS. Largely because Hitler had felt threatened by the power Ernst Röhm had amassed (among other reasons). And the SA, like ICE, was made up largely of untrained sycophants and thugs who enjoy violence. They committed violence, harassed citizens, and had no consequences for doing so. They were also instrumental in laying the foundation for the genocide and atrocities committed by the Nazi party. It’s not a dishonor to their memories, or the atrocities committed, to call that out. It is not a dishonor to say there are stark and real similarities between the way the US is operating and treating civilians. I personally find the opposite, IMHO it is dishonors their memories to refuse to acknowledge the similarities. I’ve posted a comment similar to this one here before, and like how I ended it. I strongly encourage you to read about the history of Nazi Germany and how it came to happen. It wasn’t just a zero to death camps, it was 15 years in the making. That history is deeply shocking, as it is depressing, because the parallels and timelines are too similar for anything besides outright discomfort, sadness, and fear between it and the US. But without knowing it, we are ever more likely to repeat it. One final thing to note: the US has a history of extreme violence, slave patrols and the treatment of non-whites of the 19th century were an inspiration for Hitler.
    - giancarlostoro 8mo ago
      Maybe you should get your news from a different source. Personally I prefer raw sources. I watch every official press briefing to hear from the horses mouth. You come to find that regardless of who is president news orgs put their own spin on it and you miss things they dont cover. Its all streamed on official government accounts.
elephanlemon 8mo ago
Interesting. I’m having anything on Gemini being profitable though, do you happen to have a source?
- giancarlostoro 8mo ago
  Here's one, basically AI is driving 15% of Google's profits at the end of 2025. https://advergroup.com/gemini-hits-650-million-users/ https://advergroup.com/gemini-hits-650-million-users/ I didn't really realize how big Gemini was until I saw that Qualia was using it, they apparently used 0.01% of Geminis total tokens (100 billion) in about 3 months, they're in production with the title and escrow industry, so that's a great deal of data going through Gemini, unlike some chat subscription this is all API driven, which I doubt Google is charging at a loss for. https://www.qualia.com/qualia-clear/ https://www.qualia.com/qualia-clear/ Unlike OpenAI, Google has an actual business model, not just strange circular deals. Edit: I misswrote "majority of" instead of 15% of Google's profits.
  - famouswaffles 8mo ago
    > Here's one, basically AI is driving 15% of Google's profits at the end of 2025. https://advergroup.com/gemini-hits-650-million-users/ https://advergroup.com/gemini-hits-650-million-users/ This does not at all tell us Gemini is profitable or driving 15% of its profits. The article does not mention profits even once. It then goes on to bizarrely compare Gemini's monthly active users to Open AI's weekly active ones.
    - hogwasher 8mo ago
      Indeed, that article doesn't support a single part of that claim. It kinda feels like an LLM-generated article that another LLM picked as a "citation", and then no human bothered to check if it actually said what the LLM said it did. And, really, advergroup.com? Who sites an advertising agency as if it's a reliable resource? https://advergroup.com/digital-marketing/ https://advergroup.com/digital-marketing/ "AdverGroup Web Design and Creative Media Solutions is a full service advertising agency that delivers digital marketing services. We manage Google Ad Word campaigns and/or Meta Ad Campaigns for local clients in Chicago, Las Vegas and their surrounding suburbs." So credible a resource on Gemini's performance/profitability... /sarc But yeah it doesn't even actually say anything about profits, let alone attribute any specific percentage of profits to Gemini. It just vague marketing copy.
limagnolia 8mo ago
What source do you have the Gemini is profitable? Are you referring only to the chat app, or to Google'a AI Ventures division? Or including Google Cloud AI related revenue?
- asadotzler 8mo ago
  Not agreeing with the parent, but that hardly matters. Google has a real business, advertising, that brings in $400 billion a year and income around $150B. They can afford to throw away tens of billions every year while still remaining immensely profitable and quite solid as a business. OpenAI has no such income to spend so it's as the above comments reflect, entirely unsustainable while Google's spending on AI is a drop in the bucket for them.
  - bjt 8mo ago
    That's not saying that Gemini is profitable though.
    - andriy_koval 8mo ago
      Gemini now is on the top of search results

ai_fry_ur_brain 8mo ago

[flagged]

giancarlostoro 8mo ago
The title and escrow industry is using Gemini (via Qualia Clear) enough so that Qualia accounts for 100 billions of token usage in about 3 months. Just because you don't see who is using it, and how, doesn't mean that when the dust settles, the people actually using AI for real purposes wont keep using AI. I'm not sure which AI models big pharma is using, but there's already at least one new pharmaceutical drug in the secondary testing phase, showing strong results. There will definitely be room for AI. OpenAI is just not really showing that they care about a particular business model. Probably a strong indicator that Sam Altman is probably the worst person to lead that company. Anthropic will be profitable before OpenAI ever will be. Gemini is in the green in terms of spending / income ratio FYI. I'm not talking about stocks.
richwater 8mo ago
> Especially when that military is the reincarnation of Nazi Germany , and a fourth Reich (The USA) I can't believe people who think this actually exist.
- milutinovici 8mo ago
  Have you watched the news recently?
  - Mountain_Skies 8mo ago
    Do you know any history? You dishonor the people who died from horrible atrocities in WWII to make some glib performative political posturing. It's shameful behavior. Do better. Be better.
    - deleted 8mo ago
      [deleted]
    - rubyn00bie 8mo ago
      WWII didn’t start overnight. The Sturmabteilung (SA), also known as “The Brownshirts,” have a strong similarity to what we’re seeing with ICE and CBP. The SA were Hitler’s enforcers before the SS, during the 1920s and early 1930s. They were eventually usurped by the SS during “Night of the Long Knives” where SA leadership were executed by the SS. Largely because Hitler had felt threatened by the power Ernst Röhm had amassed (among other reasons). And the SA, like ICE, was made up largely of untrained sycophants and thugs who enjoy violence. They committed violence, harassed citizens, and had no consequences for doing so. They were also instrumental in laying the foundation for the genocide and atrocities committed by the Nazi party. It’s not a dishonor to their memories, or the atrocities committed, to call that out. It is not a dishonor to say there are stark and real similarities between the way the US is operating and treating civilians. I personally find the opposite, IMHO it is dishonors their memories to refuse to acknowledge the similarities. I’ve posted a comment similar to this one here before, and like how I ended it. I strongly encourage you to read about the history of Nazi Germany and how it came to happen. It wasn’t just a zero to death camps, it was 15 years in the making. That history is deeply shocking, as it is depressing, because the parallels and timelines are too similar for anything besides outright discomfort, sadness, and fear between it and the US. But without knowing it, we are ever more likely to repeat it. One final thing to note: the US has a history of extreme violence, slave patrols and the treatment of non-whites of the 19th century were an inspiration for Hitler.
  - giancarlostoro 8mo ago
    Maybe you should get your news from a different source. Personally I prefer raw sources. I watch every official press briefing to hear from the horses mouth. You come to find that regardless of who is president news orgs put their own spin on it and you miss things they dont cover. Its all streamed on official government accounts.

elephanlemon 8mo ago

Interesting. I’m having anything on Gemini being profitable though, do you happen to have a source?

giancarlostoro 8mo ago
Here's one, basically AI is driving 15% of Google's profits at the end of 2025. https://advergroup.com/gemini-hits-650-million-users/ https://advergroup.com/gemini-hits-650-million-users/ I didn't really realize how big Gemini was until I saw that Qualia was using it, they apparently used 0.01% of Geminis total tokens (100 billion) in about 3 months, they're in production with the title and escrow industry, so that's a great deal of data going through Gemini, unlike some chat subscription this is all API driven, which I doubt Google is charging at a loss for. https://www.qualia.com/qualia-clear/ https://www.qualia.com/qualia-clear/ Unlike OpenAI, Google has an actual business model, not just strange circular deals. Edit: I misswrote "majority of" instead of 15% of Google's profits.
- famouswaffles 8mo ago
  > Here's one, basically AI is driving 15% of Google's profits at the end of 2025. https://advergroup.com/gemini-hits-650-million-users/ https://advergroup.com/gemini-hits-650-million-users/ This does not at all tell us Gemini is profitable or driving 15% of its profits. The article does not mention profits even once. It then goes on to bizarrely compare Gemini's monthly active users to Open AI's weekly active ones.
  - hogwasher 8mo ago
    Indeed, that article doesn't support a single part of that claim. It kinda feels like an LLM-generated article that another LLM picked as a "citation", and then no human bothered to check if it actually said what the LLM said it did. And, really, advergroup.com? Who sites an advertising agency as if it's a reliable resource? https://advergroup.com/digital-marketing/ https://advergroup.com/digital-marketing/ "AdverGroup Web Design and Creative Media Solutions is a full service advertising agency that delivers digital marketing services. We manage Google Ad Word campaigns and/or Meta Ad Campaigns for local clients in Chicago, Las Vegas and their surrounding suburbs." So credible a resource on Gemini's performance/profitability... /sarc But yeah it doesn't even actually say anything about profits, let alone attribute any specific percentage of profits to Gemini. It just vague marketing copy.

limagnolia 8mo ago

What source do you have the Gemini is profitable? Are you referring only to the chat app, or to Google'a AI Ventures division? Or including Google Cloud AI related revenue?

asadotzler 8mo ago
Not agreeing with the parent, but that hardly matters. Google has a real business, advertising, that brings in $400 billion a year and income around $150B. They can afford to throw away tens of billions every year while still remaining immensely profitable and quite solid as a business. OpenAI has no such income to spend so it's as the above comments reflect, entirely unsustainable while Google's spending on AI is a drop in the bucket for them.
- bjt 8mo ago
  That's not saying that Gemini is profitable though.
  - andriy_koval 8mo ago
    Gemini now is on the top of search results