3 ms·

Sorry, the toothpaste doesn't go back into the tube with social issues. Interracial marriage isn't going away either lol.

by gdulli 8mo ago

esafak 8mo ago
This is a naive take. The clock can be rewound far back.
viraptor 8mo ago
Have your seen the 60s/70s photos from Iran? https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/iran-before-revolution-photos/ https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/iran-before-revolution-phot... It just depends how much the government wants to go fundamental and how much people allow it.
- otherme123 8mo ago
  Or Kabul in the 60's vs today, even more extreme change, with no hope to going back in the near future.
- remarkEon 8mo ago
  Trying to parse this comparison. Are you comparing the withholding of federal funds for certain classes of books to a revolution that installed an Islamic theocracy in Iran? Can you elaborate on how you think these two things are comparable? The former is "tax dollars can't be spent on books that depict certain content". The latter is "a revolution lead by Islamic theocrats installs a brutally repressive islamist regime that transformed an otherwise western country into a hellscape". You think these things are the same?
  - viraptor 8mo ago
    I was addressing: > Interracial marriage isn't going away either But more generally, all those little book bans in various forms, explicit anti-diversity and xenophobic rules, undermining the right to vote for the specific groups of citizens, etc. add up and point in a specific direction. There are quite a few popular people who would be up for a theocracy, and a lot of openly fascist people down with the brutally repressive part. Consider how the sexual content in the Bible doesn't normally get included in those laws - like it's not the sexual content that's actually the target here... Nothing happens out of nowhere. We're at "concentration camps are accepted by many people" level at the moment. The direction of government is obvious, the speed and possible success are still up for debate.
    - remarkEon 8mo ago
      Okay but this isn't a book ban. I'm not understanding what you're saying. This bill doesn't prohibit these books from being printed or sold or possessed. Did you even read it? Seems like you're pivoting to "prison camps for people in the country illegally means we'll have a theocracy soon". I'm not sure you've actually thought this through.
      - viraptor 8mo ago
        I know it doesn't prohibit printing and selling them... yet. It doesn't really matter, because this proposal for ban in schools doesn't exist in vacuum. This specific change in itself is not that important. But on the background of what's happening in general, what's not happening in terms of kids sexual safety, and which group is mostly involved in the whole issue - that's important. And you somehow changed the "concentration camps" to "prison camps for people in the country illegally". I meant exactly what I wrote.
FuckButtons 8mo ago
Weimar Germany was very socially liberal, homosexuality was socially accepted, legal rights for women were the same as for men, and all of that definitely went away quite quickly.
russdill 8mo ago
They revoked driver's licenses of transgender individuals in Kansas giving only 3 days notice.
palmotea 8mo ago
> Sorry, the toothpaste doesn't go back into the tube with social issues. Interracial marriage isn't going away either lol. Sorry, that's just naive, overconfident liberalism. There is no mandatory "direction" to social change. Given enough time, every bit of that toothpaste will go back in that tube, and enough more time it will come out again, only to go back in after a spell. And it won't be an oscillation. It'll be some weird path none of us can predict.
_alaya 8mo ago
You are either completely uneducated on world history or willfully ignorant. There is no limit on how far back the clock is allowed to turn. Things that will be targeted: * homosexuals (often the first) * non whites * interracial marriage * voting rights * voting right for women * women’s suffrage * education for girls * no fault divorce * freedom of speech * freedom of mobility (like to leave the country) * trade unions / labor unions * Freemasons (Oddfellows, etc) * practicing a religion other than Christianity * environmental regulations * public lands, federal parks * etc etc etc Look not to China or North Korea for the operating model but East Germany during the Cold War. There was a massive surveillance operation in place then and technology has only improved. Freedom is not guaranteed and for most of human history was not a goal.
- lostmsu 8mo ago
  Your list is missing Nazi parties somewhere between the non whites and voting rights. And for most of the countries in the world - gun owners at the top of the list. Just speaking from historical perspective.
  - jamincan 8mo ago
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but are you saying that banning Nazi Parties and gun regulation are the first steps toward fascism and autocracy?
    - lostmsu 8mo ago
      I'm saying the list above carefully includes a bunch of more or less universally recognized good things, with the subject added on top, implying that the "left" views on sexuality are also good things. But that form of argument is lying to you because this list omits bad things and other things in grey area. To be fair, that depends on what the poster meant by "to be targeted". The list looks like it implies banning or criminalizing, but again, no one is being banned or criminalized under the legislation we are discussing.
  - _alaya 8mo ago
matheusmoreira 8mo ago
Given enough tyranny, the toothpaste absolutely can be made to go back into the tube. And it better enjoy every second of it or else.

Sorry, the toothpaste doesn't go back into the tube with social issues. Interracial marriage isn't going away either lol.

by gdulli 8mo ago

Sorry, the toothpaste doesn't go back into the tube with social issues. Interracial marriage isn't going away either lol.

esafak 8mo ago

This is a naive take. The clock can be rewound far back.

viraptor 8mo ago

Have your seen the 60s/70s photos from Iran? https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/iran-before-revolution-photos/ https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/iran-before-revolution-phot... It just depends how much the government wants to go fundamental and how much people allow it.

otherme123 8mo ago
Or Kabul in the 60's vs today, even more extreme change, with no hope to going back in the near future.
remarkEon 8mo ago
Trying to parse this comparison. Are you comparing the withholding of federal funds for certain classes of books to a revolution that installed an Islamic theocracy in Iran? Can you elaborate on how you think these two things are comparable? The former is "tax dollars can't be spent on books that depict certain content". The latter is "a revolution lead by Islamic theocrats installs a brutally repressive islamist regime that transformed an otherwise western country into a hellscape". You think these things are the same?
- viraptor 8mo ago
  I was addressing: > Interracial marriage isn't going away either But more generally, all those little book bans in various forms, explicit anti-diversity and xenophobic rules, undermining the right to vote for the specific groups of citizens, etc. add up and point in a specific direction. There are quite a few popular people who would be up for a theocracy, and a lot of openly fascist people down with the brutally repressive part. Consider how the sexual content in the Bible doesn't normally get included in those laws - like it's not the sexual content that's actually the target here... Nothing happens out of nowhere. We're at "concentration camps are accepted by many people" level at the moment. The direction of government is obvious, the speed and possible success are still up for debate.
  - remarkEon 8mo ago
    Okay but this isn't a book ban. I'm not understanding what you're saying. This bill doesn't prohibit these books from being printed or sold or possessed. Did you even read it? Seems like you're pivoting to "prison camps for people in the country illegally means we'll have a theocracy soon". I'm not sure you've actually thought this through.
    - viraptor 8mo ago
      I know it doesn't prohibit printing and selling them... yet. It doesn't really matter, because this proposal for ban in schools doesn't exist in vacuum. This specific change in itself is not that important. But on the background of what's happening in general, what's not happening in terms of kids sexual safety, and which group is mostly involved in the whole issue - that's important. And you somehow changed the "concentration camps" to "prison camps for people in the country illegally". I meant exactly what I wrote.

FuckButtons 8mo ago

Weimar Germany was very socially liberal, homosexuality was socially accepted, legal rights for women were the same as for men, and all of that definitely went away quite quickly.

russdill 8mo ago

They revoked driver's licenses of transgender individuals in Kansas giving only 3 days notice.

palmotea 8mo ago

> Sorry, the toothpaste doesn't go back into the tube with social issues. Interracial marriage isn't going away either lol. Sorry, that's just naive, overconfident liberalism. There is no mandatory "direction" to social change. Given enough time, every bit of that toothpaste will go back in that tube, and enough more time it will come out again, only to go back in after a spell. And it won't be an oscillation. It'll be some weird path none of us can predict.

_alaya 8mo ago

You are either completely uneducated on world history or willfully ignorant. There is no limit on how far back the clock is allowed to turn. Things that will be targeted: * homosexuals (often the first) * non whites * interracial marriage * voting rights * voting right for women * women’s suffrage * education for girls * no fault divorce * freedom of speech * freedom of mobility (like to leave the country) * trade unions / labor unions * Freemasons (Oddfellows, etc) * practicing a religion other than Christianity * environmental regulations * public lands, federal parks * etc etc etc Look not to China or North Korea for the operating model but East Germany during the Cold War. There was a massive surveillance operation in place then and technology has only improved. Freedom is not guaranteed and for most of human history was not a goal.

lostmsu 8mo ago
Your list is missing Nazi parties somewhere between the non whites and voting rights. And for most of the countries in the world - gun owners at the top of the list. Just speaking from historical perspective.
- jamincan 8mo ago
  Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but are you saying that banning Nazi Parties and gun regulation are the first steps toward fascism and autocracy?
  - lostmsu 8mo ago
    I'm saying the list above carefully includes a bunch of more or less universally recognized good things, with the subject added on top, implying that the "left" views on sexuality are also good things. But that form of argument is lying to you because this list omits bad things and other things in grey area. To be fair, that depends on what the poster meant by "to be targeted". The list looks like it implies banning or criminalizing, but again, no one is being banned or criminalized under the legislation we are discussing.
- _alaya 8mo ago

matheusmoreira 8mo ago

Given enough tyranny, the toothpaste absolutely can be made to go back into the tube. And it better enjoy every second of it or else.