17 ms·

If Democrats actually knew how to message on what they accomplished instead of letting the other side control the narrative and refocus everything on to fringe

If Democrats actually knew how to message on what they accomplished instead of letting the other side control the narrative and refocus everything on to fringe issues that only the fringe of the party cares about, as well as matching every Biden brain fart/stutter/"senior moment" with the equivalents from Trump, I suspect a Biden vs. Trump rematch would have been a Biden victory. But they suck at that. And when they failed to convince Biden to drop out early, they should have stuck with him and just ran hard on actual accomplishments during the admin. But Harris was a last minute pivot and it showed. I think she would have been perfectly fine as a president, and I voted for her, but not surprised in the slightest that she lost - and I expected her to lose bigger than she did. The fact that Trump couldn't even get half the popular vote when running against a last minute ticket change that was never selected to be the presidential candidate by the party she was representing is a pretty big indictment of how unpopular he really is. I think there's been learning that you can't just be "not Trump", but yeah - I don't know that the party in general has any idea how to handle messaging and narratives.

lovich 8mo ago
Agree with you on their failure of messaging, Biden was the most progressive President since Carter and I only limit myself to that because I am not as well versed in history at that point. Yet somehow the progressives found him more unpalatable than the MAGAs if you look at people like Brianna Gray and Jill Stein. It’s too far out for me to say I will definitively vote for Newsome but so far he’s the only Democrat whose started throwing hands both legislatively and on social media. I hope the dems figure out how to do more of that and better, instead of returning to shit like the October shutdown and the exchanging leverage for pinky promises from Mr. John “I am an obligate pinky promise liar” Republican.
- cogman10 8mo ago
  > Yet somehow the progressives found him more unpalatable than the MAGAs if you look at people like Brianna Gray and Jill Stein. Gaza and the border were two big issues where Biden and democrats at large were notably not progressive. And, as you might imagine, funding a genocide is something that's really hard to stomach no matter how good Lina Khan was. It also really didn't help that Kamala and her brother, where they did promise changes, it was to eliminate Khan and double down on prosecuting "transnational criminal organizations". They notably made a hard pivot from what was initially a somewhat progressive message to one of Kamala campaigning with Liz Cheney and celebrating the endorsement of a war criminal, Dick Cheney.
  - lovich 8mo ago
    Yea, those progressives called Biden “Genocide Joe” while Trump was ranting about how the Israelis hadn’t gone far enough. They somehow thought the lesser evil was actually a greater evil somehow. It’s like watching the pre Nazi party takeover of Germany where the Communists decided that the Social Democrats were worse than the fascists. It makes zero logical sense, unless they are accelerationists and think that the people will have some glorious revolution after everything gets bad enough despite all of history proving the contrary.
    - cogman10 8mo ago
      > They somehow thought the lesser evil was actually a greater evil somehow. Trump is a monster, he's evil, and he had a less evil position on Gaza than Biden did. In 2 years, Biden did jack shit to curtail Israel's genocide. The majority of the genocide happened while he was president. He continued to sign and promote bills funding Israel and he openly talked about how he was a Zionist and believed in the Israel project. His foreign policy advisors were horrendous. Israel killed so many American citizens and aid workers under Biden and his admin took Israel's side each time or would simply put out a "it's troubling, we are looking into it" which they never did. But you know why I say Trump was better on Gaza? Because he did 2 things Biden and Kamala refused to do. He met with people that supported Gazans and he forced peace negotiations. Negotiations, mind you, that are worthless and israel is violating. Negotiations that have allowed Israel to illegally take over a huge swath of gaza. But none the less, peace negotiations. Biden would put up a red line, watch Israel cross it, and then literally just move the line (the goalposts) or ultimately ignore the issue all together. There would not be even a peace deal today under a Biden presidency. Literally, we were told to just hope that Kamala who was shutting down this conversation, would be better. And the autopsy on this issue shows that the Campaigns of both Biden and Kamala were well aware that if they didn't shift on this, they'd lose the election. There are reports that campaign when getting issues from phone banks was instructed to hang up on people that raised Gaza as a problem. It's not the voters problem that Trump won. It's the Biden and Kamala campaign who prioritized supporting a genocide to continue getting AIPAC funding and support over doing the right thing and the thing their voters were screaming at them to do. People were watching Nazis go on a rampage and their government giving them billions to do that rampage. They did not vote believing there was no difference between the two parties. That was a glorious failure of the biden and kamala campaign. And something we know they knew because of a leak of an autopsy which democrats don't want to reveal because they still want AIPAC support today.

lovich 8mo ago

Agree with you on their failure of messaging, Biden was the most progressive President since Carter and I only limit myself to that because I am not as well versed in history at that point. Yet somehow the progressives found him more unpalatable than the MAGAs if you look at people like Brianna Gray and Jill Stein. It’s too far out for me to say I will definitively vote for Newsome but so far he’s the only Democrat whose started throwing hands both legislatively and on social media. I hope the dems figure out how to do more of that and better, instead of returning to shit like the October shutdown and the exchanging leverage for pinky promises from Mr. John “I am an obligate pinky promise liar” Republican.

cogman10 8mo ago
> Yet somehow the progressives found him more unpalatable than the MAGAs if you look at people like Brianna Gray and Jill Stein. Gaza and the border were two big issues where Biden and democrats at large were notably not progressive. And, as you might imagine, funding a genocide is something that's really hard to stomach no matter how good Lina Khan was. It also really didn't help that Kamala and her brother, where they did promise changes, it was to eliminate Khan and double down on prosecuting "transnational criminal organizations". They notably made a hard pivot from what was initially a somewhat progressive message to one of Kamala campaigning with Liz Cheney and celebrating the endorsement of a war criminal, Dick Cheney.
- lovich 8mo ago
  Yea, those progressives called Biden “Genocide Joe” while Trump was ranting about how the Israelis hadn’t gone far enough. They somehow thought the lesser evil was actually a greater evil somehow. It’s like watching the pre Nazi party takeover of Germany where the Communists decided that the Social Democrats were worse than the fascists. It makes zero logical sense, unless they are accelerationists and think that the people will have some glorious revolution after everything gets bad enough despite all of history proving the contrary.
  - cogman10 8mo ago
    > They somehow thought the lesser evil was actually a greater evil somehow. Trump is a monster, he's evil, and he had a less evil position on Gaza than Biden did. In 2 years, Biden did jack shit to curtail Israel's genocide. The majority of the genocide happened while he was president. He continued to sign and promote bills funding Israel and he openly talked about how he was a Zionist and believed in the Israel project. His foreign policy advisors were horrendous. Israel killed so many American citizens and aid workers under Biden and his admin took Israel's side each time or would simply put out a "it's troubling, we are looking into it" which they never did. But you know why I say Trump was better on Gaza? Because he did 2 things Biden and Kamala refused to do. He met with people that supported Gazans and he forced peace negotiations. Negotiations, mind you, that are worthless and israel is violating. Negotiations that have allowed Israel to illegally take over a huge swath of gaza. But none the less, peace negotiations. Biden would put up a red line, watch Israel cross it, and then literally just move the line (the goalposts) or ultimately ignore the issue all together. There would not be even a peace deal today under a Biden presidency. Literally, we were told to just hope that Kamala who was shutting down this conversation, would be better. And the autopsy on this issue shows that the Campaigns of both Biden and Kamala were well aware that if they didn't shift on this, they'd lose the election. There are reports that campaign when getting issues from phone banks was instructed to hang up on people that raised Gaza as a problem. It's not the voters problem that Trump won. It's the Biden and Kamala campaign who prioritized supporting a genocide to continue getting AIPAC funding and support over doing the right thing and the thing their voters were screaming at them to do. People were watching Nazis go on a rampage and their government giving them billions to do that rampage. They did not vote believing there was no difference between the two parties. That was a glorious failure of the biden and kamala campaign. And something we know they knew because of a leak of an autopsy which democrats don't want to reveal because they still want AIPAC support today.