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How do you reconcile the fact that many people in Anthropic tried to hide the existence of secret non-disparagement agreements for quite some time? It’s hard t

How do you reconcile the fact that many people in Anthropic tried to hide the existence of secret non-disparagement agreements for quite some time? It’s hard to take your comment at face value when there’s documented proof to the contrary. Maybe it could be forgiven as a blunder if revealed in the first few months and within the first handful of employees… but after 2 plus years and many dozens forced to sign that… it’s just not credible to believe it was all entirely positive motivations.

sowbug 8mo ago
Saying an entity has values doesn't mean the entity agrees with every single one of your values.
- MichaelZuo 8mo ago
  The desire to force new employees to sign agreements in total secrecy, without even being able to disclose it exists to prospective employees, seems like a pretty negative “value” under any system of morality, commerce, or human organization that I can think of.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 8mo ago
    Lots of companies do it. Doesn't make it right, but HR has kind of become a pretty evil vocation, these days. I don't believe that they necessarily reflect the values of their corporations. They tend to follow their own muse.
    - zmgsabst 8mo ago
      Okay — but if Anthropic is typical banal evil in that regard, why should we believe they didn’t also compromise in other areas? The exact point is that Anthropic is unexceptional and the same as other corporations.
  - sowbug 8mo ago
    That's a perfectly fine belief to have. I might even agree with you. But you're not really advancing a discussion thread about a company's strong ideals by pointing out some past behavior that you don't like. This is especially true when the behavior you're bringing up is fairly common, if perhaps lamentable, among U.S. corporations. Anthropic can be exceptional in some ways while being ordinary in the rest. (I have no horse in this race. But I remain interested in hearing about a former employee's experience and impressions about the company's ideals, and hope it doesn't get lost in a side discussion about whether NDAs are a good thing.)
    - MichaelZuo 8mo ago
      You dont believe it increases the probability that Anthropic may be hiding other unsavory things too? I can see a very charitable person only seeing a small increase, but a literally zero change, and therefore zero relevance, seems absurd.
      - sowbug 8mo ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayes%27_theorem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayes%27_theorem
        MichaelZuo 8mo ago
        Are you confusing me with someone else’s comment? This doesn’t address my question on what you believe.
        sowbug 8mo ago
        Read the beetle example in that article. It's exactly on point. You believe Anthropic is a rare subspecies of beetle (an "unsavory" company) based on a certain pattern on its back (certain NDA-related behavior). I and several others here have noted that lots of companies have that pattern on their backs. Which means that you are basing your conclusion on weak evidence. If you use Bayes Theorem to calculate the actual probability, you'll find that "[trying] to hide the existence of secret non-disparagement agreements" barely moves the needle at all. Does it move the needle? Sure. But much less than you think.
deleted 8mo ago
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sowbug 8mo ago

Saying an entity has values doesn't mean the entity agrees with every single one of your values.

MichaelZuo 8mo ago
The desire to force new employees to sign agreements in total secrecy, without even being able to disclose it exists to prospective employees, seems like a pretty negative “value” under any system of morality, commerce, or human organization that I can think of.
- ChrisMarshallNY 8mo ago
  Lots of companies do it. Doesn't make it right, but HR has kind of become a pretty evil vocation, these days. I don't believe that they necessarily reflect the values of their corporations. They tend to follow their own muse.
  - zmgsabst 8mo ago
    Okay — but if Anthropic is typical banal evil in that regard, why should we believe they didn’t also compromise in other areas? The exact point is that Anthropic is unexceptional and the same as other corporations.
- sowbug 8mo ago
  That's a perfectly fine belief to have. I might even agree with you. But you're not really advancing a discussion thread about a company's strong ideals by pointing out some past behavior that you don't like. This is especially true when the behavior you're bringing up is fairly common, if perhaps lamentable, among U.S. corporations. Anthropic can be exceptional in some ways while being ordinary in the rest. (I have no horse in this race. But I remain interested in hearing about a former employee's experience and impressions about the company's ideals, and hope it doesn't get lost in a side discussion about whether NDAs are a good thing.)
  - MichaelZuo 8mo ago
    You dont believe it increases the probability that Anthropic may be hiding other unsavory things too? I can see a very charitable person only seeing a small increase, but a literally zero change, and therefore zero relevance, seems absurd.
    - sowbug 8mo ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayes%27_theorem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayes%27_theorem
      - MichaelZuo 8mo ago
        Are you confusing me with someone else’s comment? This doesn’t address my question on what you believe.
        sowbug 8mo ago
        Read the beetle example in that article. It's exactly on point. You believe Anthropic is a rare subspecies of beetle (an "unsavory" company) based on a certain pattern on its back (certain NDA-related behavior). I and several others here have noted that lots of companies have that pattern on their backs. Which means that you are basing your conclusion on weak evidence. If you use Bayes Theorem to calculate the actual probability, you'll find that "[trying] to hide the existence of secret non-disparagement agreements" barely moves the needle at all. Does it move the needle? Sure. But much less than you think.

deleted 8mo ago

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