2 ms·

Exactly. Square was the first great checkout system, but now a decade and a half later every other system is good enough that retailers aren't going to pay extr

by paxys 8mo ago

Exactly. Square was the first great checkout system, but now a decade and a half later every other system is good enough that retailers aren't going to pay extra for a flashier app.

raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
And before people like my barber would have had a square reader. With NFC in modern phones, they just use that
mattmaroon 8mo ago
It’s not extra and their hardware is still far better than the competition. Square is still awesome in the small business PoS space. Their lead has not shrunk.
- Marsymars 8mo ago
  You might think Square has better hardware/software, but they absolutely are extra cost-wise for small businesses if you compare them to e.g. Helcim.
- paxys 8mo ago
  Toast has already caught up in market share, and dominates the restaurant industry. Square's numbers have been stagnant for many years. And more importantly, the entire premise when Square launched was that app-based "cloud" PoS systems would replace all traditional cash registers. Except now 15 years later that simply hasn't happened. Existing players in the space all caught up and shipped chip and NFC readers to their retailers, and that's all that was needed.
  - mattmaroon 8mo ago
    Square was never competitive in the restaurant space. Toast took market share there, but from other companies. I run large public markets, the vendors are still almost entirely square just as they were ten years ago. They have failed to make inroads into larger businesses like chains and stores, but that was never their customer to begin with.
- ryukoposting 8mo ago
  The ubiquity of NFC has made specialized hardware irrelevant for entire industries. It's set dressing for small businesses. The ruggedized enclosures and swiveling touchscreens are cute, but that's not a moat. Their lead absolutely has shrunk. In the mid-late 2010s it was either Square, or a bevy of shovelware Windows POS systems loosely stitched together with a tablet for rewards and maybe grubhub. Clover and Toast are both regular sights in that space now.
- rco8786 8mo ago
  > Their lead has not shrunk It has though, by a lot. Toast in particular has eaten Square's lunch in the restaurant industry and now they're expanding to retail. Even NCR has caught up, along with a long tail of newer competitors eating away at market share. There was a window of time where Square was the default choice for small biz POS and that is most definitely not the case anymore.
tshaddox 8mo ago
Over the last 10 years or so in SF and LA, I’ve seen so many countless POS systems at restaurants and small businesses that it’s difficult to believe that Square is anything more than 1 player in an enormous field. And businesses I frequent over many years seem to change their POS systems often. I’ve always assumed that every year there are a bunch of new startups using their VC funds to give away free iPad minis. When the cheap hardware breaks or the software company goes under, there’s always a new one to take its place.
- izacus 8mo ago
  What's wrong with being 1 player in enormous field? Does everything need to be a monopoly in US nowadays?
jrjeksjd8d 8mo ago
Square is a great option for selling crafts at a market once a month. I tried to use it for a proper multi-channel retail store and it immediately fell apart: - the e-commerce integration (Weebly?) is very limited and the resulting sites are dog slow - the POS itself and the backend don't work when you have hundreds of SKUs and many variants - there's very little customization or support My business wasn't huge but we were doing ~300k revenue annually online and in-store. We started on Square, tried Lightspeed (also garbage) and finally ended up on Shopify (best of a bad lot). Despite making noise about "supporting small business" Shopify makes most of their money from e-commerce for giant brands. They've tried to juice returns from small customers with merchant cash advances but my sense is they make more doing professional services for big e-commerce brands

by paxys 8mo ago

Exactly. Square was the first great checkout system, but now a decade and a half later every other system is good enough that retailers aren't going to pay extra for a flashier app.

raw_anon_1111 8mo ago

And before people like my barber would have had a square reader. With NFC in modern phones, they just use that

mattmaroon 8mo ago

It’s not extra and their hardware is still far better than the competition. Square is still awesome in the small business PoS space. Their lead has not shrunk.

Marsymars 8mo ago
You might think Square has better hardware/software, but they absolutely are extra cost-wise for small businesses if you compare them to e.g. Helcim.
paxys 8mo ago
Toast has already caught up in market share, and dominates the restaurant industry. Square's numbers have been stagnant for many years. And more importantly, the entire premise when Square launched was that app-based "cloud" PoS systems would replace all traditional cash registers. Except now 15 years later that simply hasn't happened. Existing players in the space all caught up and shipped chip and NFC readers to their retailers, and that's all that was needed.
- mattmaroon 8mo ago
  Square was never competitive in the restaurant space. Toast took market share there, but from other companies. I run large public markets, the vendors are still almost entirely square just as they were ten years ago. They have failed to make inroads into larger businesses like chains and stores, but that was never their customer to begin with.
ryukoposting 8mo ago
The ubiquity of NFC has made specialized hardware irrelevant for entire industries. It's set dressing for small businesses. The ruggedized enclosures and swiveling touchscreens are cute, but that's not a moat. Their lead absolutely has shrunk. In the mid-late 2010s it was either Square, or a bevy of shovelware Windows POS systems loosely stitched together with a tablet for rewards and maybe grubhub. Clover and Toast are both regular sights in that space now.
rco8786 8mo ago
> Their lead has not shrunk It has though, by a lot. Toast in particular has eaten Square's lunch in the restaurant industry and now they're expanding to retail. Even NCR has caught up, along with a long tail of newer competitors eating away at market share. There was a window of time where Square was the default choice for small biz POS and that is most definitely not the case anymore.

tshaddox 8mo ago

Over the last 10 years or so in SF and LA, I’ve seen so many countless POS systems at restaurants and small businesses that it’s difficult to believe that Square is anything more than 1 player in an enormous field. And businesses I frequent over many years seem to change their POS systems often. I’ve always assumed that every year there are a bunch of new startups using their VC funds to give away free iPad minis. When the cheap hardware breaks or the software company goes under, there’s always a new one to take its place.

izacus 8mo ago
What's wrong with being 1 player in enormous field? Does everything need to be a monopoly in US nowadays?

jrjeksjd8d 8mo ago

Square is a great option for selling crafts at a market once a month. I tried to use it for a proper multi-channel retail store and it immediately fell apart: - the e-commerce integration (Weebly?) is very limited and the resulting sites are dog slow - the POS itself and the backend don't work when you have hundreds of SKUs and many variants - there's very little customization or support My business wasn't huge but we were doing ~300k revenue annually online and in-store. We started on Square, tried Lightspeed (also garbage) and finally ended up on Shopify (best of a bad lot). Despite making noise about "supporting small business" Shopify makes most of their money from e-commerce for giant brands. They've tried to juice returns from small customers with merchant cash advances but my sense is they make more doing professional services for big e-commerce brands