4 ms·

In what sense did CashApp not pan out? $16b revenue. Too early to say whether Afterpay will work out but looking good so far

by n2d4 7mo ago

ceejayoz 7mo ago
> $16b revenue I can make a lot of revenue selling $100 bills for $10. I'm not sure it'd "pan out".
daxfohl 7mo ago
Updated to two tricks. And you could argue three if you call banking its own trick. Afterpay was an acquisition (and much smaller) so IDK if that counts. Still, all the bitcoin stuff, music, other side ventures, most of the international expansion, attempts to appeal to bigger businesses, the recent "focus local" vision, all hardly made a dent in the respective markets and I wouldn't be surprised if they lost money or are still losing money on most of those things.
- rswail 7mo ago
  Afterpay (and the other Buy Now Pay Later competitors like Klarna) are potential financial arrangement facilitators for their customers. Sure the BNPL model uses effectively invoice factoring with high interest penalties but they do have a financial relationship with both vendors and buyers. There's a lot to leverage there. It's Paypal with lending attached.
toomuchtodo 7mo ago
CashApp was launched in 2013, long before Zelle and other instant payment rails arrived, which closed wallet providers solved for (Venmo too, owned by...Paypal). There is little growth to be had when these customers can get free deposit accounts with access to Zelle or FedNow to move value for free instantly. It's success to be sure to accumulate the cashflow from the customer base built, but it isn't lasting.
- tempest_ 7mo ago
  It also solves an exclusively American problem. In my country anyone can send money bank to bank, no need for a separate service.
  - toomuchtodo 7mo ago
    Absolutely, most of this is private corporate duct tape over a lack of Pix (Brazil), UPI (India), Instant SEPA (Europe), etc [1]. “Americans can always be trusted to do the right thing, once all other possibilities have been exhausted.” [2] In a US financial services market, Venmo and CashApp are unnecessary assuming you procure a deposit account from a bank or credit union with instant payment rails access [3] [4]. Even Schwab has access to Zelle, for example. You need not extend credit and have credit risk exposure for paper checks anymore as well as an issuer of a deposit account. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant_payment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant_payment [2] (widely attributed to Winston Churchill) [3] https://enroll.zellepay.com/ https://enroll.zellepay.com/ [4] https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/organizations https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/organi...
    - kevin_thibedeau 7mo ago
      > Even Schwab has access to Zelle Schwab's accounts are backed by Chase. Zelle comes along for the ride.
    - linkregister 7mo ago
      Zelle has a transfer limit of $1000 per day and has a bad user interface.
      - toomuchtodo 7mo ago
        Transfer limits are selected by each network participant [1], based on their risk tolerance. Four years ago Zelle was moving half a trillion dollars (~$490B) a year, 1/4th of total credit card volume [2]. I’ll come back with 2025 numbers when time permits. Zelle is baked into each financial institution’s app, there is no stand alone app anymore (as of March 2025) [3]. If you don’t like the UX, switch banks or credit unions, they’re mostly interchangeable. There are thousands to pick from. I move thousands of dollars a month with Zelle, so I know it’s possible. My credit union allows me $3k/day, $8k/month. Chase Bank had similar limits before I left them. [1] https://www.bankrate.com/banking/zelle-limits-at-top-banks/ https://www.bankrate.com/banking/zelle-limits-at-top-banks/ [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32512052 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32512052 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43552030 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43552030

In what sense did CashApp not pan out? $16b revenue. Too early to say whether Afterpay will work out but looking good so far

by n2d4 7mo ago

In what sense did CashApp not pan out? $16b revenue. Too early to say whether Afterpay will work out but looking good so far

ceejayoz 7mo ago

> $16b revenue I can make a lot of revenue selling $100 bills for $10. I'm not sure it'd "pan out".

daxfohl 7mo ago

Updated to two tricks. And you could argue three if you call banking its own trick. Afterpay was an acquisition (and much smaller) so IDK if that counts. Still, all the bitcoin stuff, music, other side ventures, most of the international expansion, attempts to appeal to bigger businesses, the recent "focus local" vision, all hardly made a dent in the respective markets and I wouldn't be surprised if they lost money or are still losing money on most of those things.

rswail 7mo ago
Afterpay (and the other Buy Now Pay Later competitors like Klarna) are potential financial arrangement facilitators for their customers. Sure the BNPL model uses effectively invoice factoring with high interest penalties but they do have a financial relationship with both vendors and buyers. There's a lot to leverage there. It's Paypal with lending attached.

toomuchtodo 7mo ago

CashApp was launched in 2013, long before Zelle and other instant payment rails arrived, which closed wallet providers solved for (Venmo too, owned by...Paypal). There is little growth to be had when these customers can get free deposit accounts with access to Zelle or FedNow to move value for free instantly. It's success to be sure to accumulate the cashflow from the customer base built, but it isn't lasting.

tempest_ 7mo ago
It also solves an exclusively American problem. In my country anyone can send money bank to bank, no need for a separate service.
- toomuchtodo 7mo ago
  Absolutely, most of this is private corporate duct tape over a lack of Pix (Brazil), UPI (India), Instant SEPA (Europe), etc [1]. “Americans can always be trusted to do the right thing, once all other possibilities have been exhausted.” [2] In a US financial services market, Venmo and CashApp are unnecessary assuming you procure a deposit account from a bank or credit union with instant payment rails access [3] [4]. Even Schwab has access to Zelle, for example. You need not extend credit and have credit risk exposure for paper checks anymore as well as an issuer of a deposit account. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant_payment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant_payment [2] (widely attributed to Winston Churchill) [3] https://enroll.zellepay.com/ https://enroll.zellepay.com/ [4] https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/organizations https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/organi...
  - kevin_thibedeau 7mo ago
    > Even Schwab has access to Zelle Schwab's accounts are backed by Chase. Zelle comes along for the ride.
  - linkregister 7mo ago
    Zelle has a transfer limit of $1000 per day and has a bad user interface.
    - toomuchtodo 7mo ago
      Transfer limits are selected by each network participant [1], based on their risk tolerance. Four years ago Zelle was moving half a trillion dollars (~$490B) a year, 1/4th of total credit card volume [2]. I’ll come back with 2025 numbers when time permits. Zelle is baked into each financial institution’s app, there is no stand alone app anymore (as of March 2025) [3]. If you don’t like the UX, switch banks or credit unions, they’re mostly interchangeable. There are thousands to pick from. I move thousands of dollars a month with Zelle, so I know it’s possible. My credit union allows me $3k/day, $8k/month. Chase Bank had similar limits before I left them. [1] https://www.bankrate.com/banking/zelle-limits-at-top-banks/ https://www.bankrate.com/banking/zelle-limits-at-top-banks/ [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32512052 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32512052 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43552030 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43552030