3 ms·

Almost always when I'm in a country that does not have European (CEE) plugs and sockets, I feel uncomfortable. All CEE combinations have very solid touch protec

by micw 7mo ago

Almost always when I'm in a country that does not have European (CEE) plugs and sockets, I feel uncomfortable. All CEE combinations have very solid touch protection. It's almost impossible to touch a metal pin of a plug when it's so close to the socket that it might have contact. When I the see the "flat" style sockets plus the full-metal pins I wonder if it's just a bad feeling or if way more people gets accidentally electrocuted with that kind of plugs/socket than with our CEE types.

Symbiote 7mo ago
I agree (Except British plugs which are also fine if made properly¹). Denmark made installing CEE (the French version) sockets legal in 2011, but the only place I've seen one is a friend's house — he's German and swapped the sockets when he bought it. ¹ Hong Kong also uses British plugs, and this seems to have led some Chinese manufacturers to make non-compliant, unsafe plugs which fit — and nowadays with Amazon, AliExpress etc selling any old rubbish they are sometimes seen in Britain.
- otherme123 7mo ago
  I am mainland european, but I like better the UK plugs having a fuse and being non pluggable on unearthed sockets: it is common to plug type G appliances to type C sockets. If only they had the safety depth of the CEE instead of being at surface...
  - hdgvhicv 7mo ago
    The socket holes are protected so you can’t jam thing in like European ones, and the metal isn’t exposed as the live and neutral are sheathed if the plug is half connected. Setting aside the fuse the socket is safer than prevented European ones (which aren’t the only European sockets going)
    - otherme123 7mo ago
      The socket in CEE also protect the plug from being hit laterally and damaging either the socket or the plug. In Spain, before the adoption of CEE 7/3 we had europlugs without plug pocket, and I remember half the sockets of the house wiggling on the casing due to lateral hits, and plugs coming out of the socket easily. With CEE 7/3 you have to pull, they feel really sturdy, specially compared with NEMA. I don't have much experience with UK sockets, but I bet they are not as secured (not electrically but as in this-plug-isnt-going-anywhere) as the CEE 7/3. Not a fan of the protection through a sleeve, as it encourages meddling with the socket with a screwer to use unearthed plugs. That said, I would like Shukos with fuses, and Shuko plugs unable to plug in unearthed sockets.
      - Symbiote 7mo ago
        The UK plug is probably not as tightly secured, but the pins are rectangular and almost twice the width of the round CEE pins. I think the result is it's pretty much equivalent. Unearthed UK plugs simply don't exist.
        otherme123 7mo ago
        There are Youtube "tutorials" about how to plug CEE appliances in the UK, for example: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/AMGKtNtSaHI https://www.youtube.com/shorts/AMGKtNtSaHI . In UE we have sockets with unearthed barriers using closed holes when the plug isn't earthed, but they also sell plastic pieces as a workaround for the barriers. I have seen people breaking or sliding the barriers with a screwdriver to get access. At this point is better to just install spring covers like the triphasic sockets, because the only real protection is against dust.
zdragnar 7mo ago
Despite being fairly careless when handling them, I've managed a fair few decades without once shocking myself. With that being said, I would be delighted with CEE, BS or almost anything other than NEMA anything. The 120v plugs aren't the worst thing since they usually have some good gripping points, and the 50 amp plugs usually have a handle on the back, but the 30 amp plugs typically have no finger indentation at all for gripping and I feel like my fingers are going to slip over and around every time I pull one out.
- Symbiote 7mo ago
  I'm only a tourist when I visit places with NEMA sockets, so I'm sure I see much more worn sockets than a resident of America. But I often find sockets that have a loose grip on heavier plugs, like a phone charger, or a NEMA-CEE adaptor. (Half my experience is in Central and South America, where maintenance is probably worse — though in Africa old CEE or UK sockets are usually OK.)
  - Kaliboy 7mo ago
    I live in a Caribbean Dutch island, we grew up with NEMA, being a 127v/50hz distribution network. They suck. Like you said, eventually everything starts sagging in the sockets. Recently there's been a trend to switch to 220v based appliances here so modern homes have European plugs instead or alongside NEMA plugs. It's safer on so many levels. NEMA being 110v means generally higher currents compared to 220v. Then the socket being absolute shit makes it so you often, thanks to gravity, get a situation where you're passing too much current through pins that aren't making enough contact. Followed by fire.
  - quickthrowman 7mo ago
    Residential grade receptacles are basically complete garbage, always buy commercial spec grade wiring devices at the bare minimum, heavy duty receptacles will last even longer. Video illustrating the much better device you get for $1.50 more: https://youtu.be/JoL7TzGhMt0 https://youtu.be/JoL7TzGhMt0 Hospital grade receptacles have extra strong contacts which make it more difficult to remove a plug, but I wouldn’t use them in a home.
xenadu02 7mo ago
US style plugs and derivatives (and Australian, Japanese, Brazilian, etc) - all invented by Hubbell - are "good enough". Are they objectively good? No. Do they regularly fail, cause fires, or shock people? No. Even my kids when young understood how to grip the plug without touching the metal contacts and to this day still have not been shocked. In theory can something fall and hit the pins just right to cause a short? Sure. You could also get struck by lightning. In practice it just doesn't happen very often. For the US/North American NEMA style there are some improvements and some clever things about them. Modern receptacles have shutter doors that stop you from putting anything into the holes unless the ground pin or neutral pin unlocks it first. Many plugs also cover the rear part of the hot/neutral with plastic so if the plug is not fully inserted there is no exposed metal. The plugs also prevent mixing voltage and amperage. The typical two vertical blades (5-15) are for 15 amp circuits. 20 amp circuits (5-20) have one horizontal + one vertical blade. The receptacle has a T shaped slot to match - that way you can plug a low-amp device into a high-amp circuit but not the reverse. Similarly the 240v version of this plug (6-15/6-20) has the same property: 15amp and 20amp versions. The 15 amp is two horizontal blades. The 20 amp is one horizontal + 1 vertical but swapped places compared to the 120v version. I do wish more builders installed the 240v receptacles in kitchens in the US. There is no technical reason we can't have higher power kettles and whatnot. If code required these in garages and kitchens more appliances would be available for them. (I find it insane that Brazil continues to be dual exclusive voltage; all of North America is dual concurrent voltage. Every home/office has 120v and 240v available. In Brazil it depends on what state/city you live in - some get 120v, some get 240v. Even worse they use the same standard plug design for both so you'd better hope the plug is the right color or has the right sticker. And you can't be sure you can take electrical appliances from one city to the next! At least they should have adopted different plugs for different voltages.) The huge advantage of these plugs is compatibility. We already have them. The cost to change designs is massive. The benefit extremely small. It just isn't worth doing. Note: The 240v NEMA plugs I am referencing are not "dryer plugs" which are physically much* larger and designed for much higher amp loads in the 30-60 range. The 6-15/6-20 are literally identical to the standard 120v plugs but with different blade orientations. They were designed to support 240v appliances in everyday use since all of North America is dual voltage. In practice 240v is only ever used for large appliances like ovens so the 6 series doesn't get much use which is a bit of a shame.
UltraSane 7mo ago
I have lived in the US my entire life and I have touched the live contacts of a plug exactly once. It tingles.

by micw 7mo ago

Symbiote 7mo ago

I agree (Except British plugs which are also fine if made properly¹). Denmark made installing CEE (the French version) sockets legal in 2011, but the only place I've seen one is a friend's house — he's German and swapped the sockets when he bought it. ¹ Hong Kong also uses British plugs, and this seems to have led some Chinese manufacturers to make non-compliant, unsafe plugs which fit — and nowadays with Amazon, AliExpress etc selling any old rubbish they are sometimes seen in Britain.

otherme123 7mo ago
I am mainland european, but I like better the UK plugs having a fuse and being non pluggable on unearthed sockets: it is common to plug type G appliances to type C sockets. If only they had the safety depth of the CEE instead of being at surface...
- hdgvhicv 7mo ago
  The socket holes are protected so you can’t jam thing in like European ones, and the metal isn’t exposed as the live and neutral are sheathed if the plug is half connected. Setting aside the fuse the socket is safer than prevented European ones (which aren’t the only European sockets going)
  - otherme123 7mo ago
    The socket in CEE also protect the plug from being hit laterally and damaging either the socket or the plug. In Spain, before the adoption of CEE 7/3 we had europlugs without plug pocket, and I remember half the sockets of the house wiggling on the casing due to lateral hits, and plugs coming out of the socket easily. With CEE 7/3 you have to pull, they feel really sturdy, specially compared with NEMA. I don't have much experience with UK sockets, but I bet they are not as secured (not electrically but as in this-plug-isnt-going-anywhere) as the CEE 7/3. Not a fan of the protection through a sleeve, as it encourages meddling with the socket with a screwer to use unearthed plugs. That said, I would like Shukos with fuses, and Shuko plugs unable to plug in unearthed sockets.
    - Symbiote 7mo ago
      The UK plug is probably not as tightly secured, but the pins are rectangular and almost twice the width of the round CEE pins. I think the result is it's pretty much equivalent. Unearthed UK plugs simply don't exist.
      - otherme123 7mo ago
        There are Youtube "tutorials" about how to plug CEE appliances in the UK, for example: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/AMGKtNtSaHI https://www.youtube.com/shorts/AMGKtNtSaHI . In UE we have sockets with unearthed barriers using closed holes when the plug isn't earthed, but they also sell plastic pieces as a workaround for the barriers. I have seen people breaking or sliding the barriers with a screwdriver to get access. At this point is better to just install spring covers like the triphasic sockets, because the only real protection is against dust.

zdragnar 7mo ago

Despite being fairly careless when handling them, I've managed a fair few decades without once shocking myself. With that being said, I would be delighted with CEE, BS or almost anything other than NEMA anything. The 120v plugs aren't the worst thing since they usually have some good gripping points, and the 50 amp plugs usually have a handle on the back, but the 30 amp plugs typically have no finger indentation at all for gripping and I feel like my fingers are going to slip over and around every time I pull one out.

Symbiote 7mo ago
I'm only a tourist when I visit places with NEMA sockets, so I'm sure I see much more worn sockets than a resident of America. But I often find sockets that have a loose grip on heavier plugs, like a phone charger, or a NEMA-CEE adaptor. (Half my experience is in Central and South America, where maintenance is probably worse — though in Africa old CEE or UK sockets are usually OK.)
- Kaliboy 7mo ago
  I live in a Caribbean Dutch island, we grew up with NEMA, being a 127v/50hz distribution network. They suck. Like you said, eventually everything starts sagging in the sockets. Recently there's been a trend to switch to 220v based appliances here so modern homes have European plugs instead or alongside NEMA plugs. It's safer on so many levels. NEMA being 110v means generally higher currents compared to 220v. Then the socket being absolute shit makes it so you often, thanks to gravity, get a situation where you're passing too much current through pins that aren't making enough contact. Followed by fire.
- quickthrowman 7mo ago
  Residential grade receptacles are basically complete garbage, always buy commercial spec grade wiring devices at the bare minimum, heavy duty receptacles will last even longer. Video illustrating the much better device you get for $1.50 more: https://youtu.be/JoL7TzGhMt0 https://youtu.be/JoL7TzGhMt0 Hospital grade receptacles have extra strong contacts which make it more difficult to remove a plug, but I wouldn’t use them in a home.

xenadu02 7mo ago

US style plugs and derivatives (and Australian, Japanese, Brazilian, etc) - all invented by Hubbell - are "good enough". Are they objectively good? No. Do they regularly fail, cause fires, or shock people? No. Even my kids when young understood how to grip the plug without touching the metal contacts and to this day still have not been shocked. In theory can something fall and hit the pins just right to cause a short? Sure. You could also get struck by lightning. In practice it just doesn't happen very often. For the US/North American NEMA style there are some improvements and some clever things about them. Modern receptacles have shutter doors that stop you from putting anything into the holes unless the ground pin or neutral pin unlocks it first. Many plugs also cover the rear part of the hot/neutral with plastic so if the plug is not fully inserted there is no exposed metal. The plugs also prevent mixing voltage and amperage. The typical two vertical blades (5-15) are for 15 amp circuits. 20 amp circuits (5-20) have one horizontal + one vertical blade. The receptacle has a T shaped slot to match - that way you can plug a low-amp device into a high-amp circuit but not the reverse. Similarly the 240v version of this plug (6-15/6-20) has the same property: 15amp and 20amp versions. The 15 amp is two horizontal blades. The 20 amp is one horizontal + 1 vertical but swapped places compared to the 120v version. I do wish more builders installed the 240v receptacles in kitchens in the US. There is no technical reason we can't have higher power kettles and whatnot. If code required these in garages and kitchens more appliances would be available for them. (I find it insane that Brazil continues to be dual exclusive voltage; all of North America is dual concurrent voltage. Every home/office has 120v and 240v available. In Brazil it depends on what state/city you live in - some get 120v, some get 240v. Even worse they use the same standard plug design for both so you'd better hope the plug is the right color or has the right sticker. And you can't be sure you can take electrical appliances from one city to the next! At least they should have adopted different plugs for different voltages.) The huge advantage of these plugs is compatibility. We already have them. The cost to change designs is massive. The benefit extremely small. It just isn't worth doing. Note: The 240v NEMA plugs I am referencing are not "dryer plugs" which are physically much* larger and designed for much higher amp loads in the 30-60 range. The 6-15/6-20 are literally identical to the standard 120v plugs but with different blade orientations. They were designed to support 240v appliances in everyday use since all of North America is dual voltage. In practice 240v is only ever used for large appliances like ovens so the 6 series doesn't get much use which is a bit of a shame.

UltraSane 7mo ago

I have lived in the US my entire life and I have touched the live contacts of a plug exactly once. It tingles.