5 ms·

I’d encourage a change of labels away from “friend/foe”. It may seem minor but the subtle loaded nature of those paired terms encourages an adversarial stance r

I’d encourage a change of labels away from “friend/foe”. It may seem minor but the subtle loaded nature of those paired terms encourages an adversarial stance rather than one of productive discourse. It’s not catchy so there’s probably better than this but, just as an example— “engage/ignore” could better signal to the user a neutral “do I want to bother with this person?”

jacquesm 8mo ago
That's just Slashdot's influence. They did the same thing at some point.
- ineedasername 8mo ago
  Ah, okay-- though that doesn't mean the author can't do better, if I'm not just being too nitpicky.
  - jacquesm 8mo ago
    The last thing HN needs is to become more like Slashdot.
    - avadodin 8mo ago
      In Soviet Russia, Slashdot becomes HN!
      - grepfru_it 8mo ago
        Can you imagine a beowulf cluster of HNs?
  - Lerc 8mo ago
    Dot product of opinions? Using a fancier term for the same thing might be a significant axis though.
    - globalnode 8mo ago
      maximize your projection onto like minded commenters, create that bubble you always yearned for but until now have never had the add-on to empower the inner-you! finally, you can ignore that filthy plane of delusional outcasts and banish them to the orthogonal abyss forever.
- unethical_ban 8mo ago
  I've wanted something like this for a long time and also thought of the slashdot system. This is directly from that.
logicprog 8mo ago
Agreed, independent of where the terminology came from, I think if you're trying to promote healthier engagement both for yourself and others using this extension, then not having such adversarial names it's probably a good idea. It should just end up being a sort of web of trust to help you decide what's worth engaging with — and sometimes perfectly valid people that you're not actually enemies with or anything just aren't worth your time engaging with because of fundamental axiological or positional differences.
rustystump 8mo ago
I like friend and foe far more than engage and ignore. A foe isnt someone you ignore. Ignoring is what builds bubbles. A foe can often be right even if you disagree.
- XorNot 8mo ago
  People I want to ignore I usually disagree with as well, but that's not the problem: the problem is they are repetitive and boring.
  - rustystump 8mo ago
    I sure hope the disagreement to ignore ven diagram doesnt look like that. If u never engage, how will you ever know you were wrong about something repetitive and boring?
    - XorNot 8mo ago
      Which is not at all what I wrote. Most things are interesting if you look deeply into them. People on the other hand can be repetitive and boring about them. Which would extend to the excessive use of meta-argument: complaining people aren't listening but also not actually saying anything of substance.
- ineedasername 8mo ago
  A foe is also someone you might preemptively punch in the face if they get too close before you could determine if they actually meant you harm right then. I'd prefer not to label things such that I'm justifying the label's negative potential by the disproportionately small "even if" range of positive ones.
  - rustystump 8mo ago
    Woh there cowboy we are talking about online chat miles away. If u dont like it, cool beans. I like it. sometimes my greatest foes become my dearest friends. Funny how life works that way.
WorldMaker 8mo ago
Follow/Distance?
- wartywhoa23 8mo ago
  [flagged]
- conesus 8mo ago
  Ahh, I have you green orbed, and I recognize your username from NB. The system works!
  - card_zero 8mo ago
    What do you gain from this?
    - conesus 8mo ago
      I mean the entire extension is about this, but I can quickly scan this thread (or others) and spot my favored commenters.
      - card_zero 8mo ago
        Yes, and you just found that you "favor" WorldMaker, and therefore ... read the suggestion "Follow/Distance?" more eagerly? If that suggestion (which I suppose you'll ignore anyway, but maybe it inspires some other thought in you) came from a foe, then ... you'd be directed away from paying attention to it? Because you've incontinently flipped a colored orb at some point in the past, and now you're going to use that statistical information to direct you to where the most inspiring ideas mostly are? I see. But maybe this is not very high quality information in the first place (the information that you provide for yourself by flicking an orb)?
deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
ting0 8mo ago
That's such a friend thing to say!
tyre 8mo ago
favorite / potato Although there are some commenters I would want to follow because they are potato. There is something so magical about some of the more delulu Take Havers around here.
- pavel_lishin 8mo ago
  potato / tomato?
- scrozier 8mo ago
  As a boomer, I had fun trying to decode your last sentence!
groby_b 8mo ago
I'd suggest to move even beyond "engage/ignore". This is HN. The focus should be "does this person provide interesting or thought provoking comments", not "relationships" or "engagement". There are plenty of HN commenters whose opinions I absolutely dislike (I'm sure it's mutual ;), but I still read them - they are at least well reasoned or point out missing facts. I don't have to like them to learn from them.
raddan 8mo ago
Bring back hot or not!
derefr 8mo ago
That would imply a slightly different semantics than what the extension currently provides, though. If you truly want certain users to be "ignored", then you probably want any of their comments (and the subtree of descendant comments) to be hidden/collapsed/made less legible, so that you don't accidentally read them, and thereby don't accidentally get rage-baited by them into wasting your day arguing with them. Same as e.g. kill files on Usenet. Given that this comment collapsing/hiding/visibility-decreasing is something already built into HN (for comments/subtrees with strongly-negative score), it'd be really easy for the extension to hijack this functionality for its own purposes... if it actually wanted the red button to mean "ignore". That the extension doesn't do that, implies to me that the extensions intended semantics for "foes" isn't "I don't want to engage with this person" but rather "I want to notice this person more." Perhaps "so that I can take the opportunity to actively antagonize them / argue with everything they say." (I'm not saying that this is a good thing; just that insofar as "the purpose of a system is what it does", this is the purpose of a plain "foe" signal!)
polotics 8mo ago
I propose: Bubble/Whistle
jimnotgym 8mo ago
I see this as a very hn type commenting. Nitpicking over semantics rather than engaging the whole. Your comment is fine, but the whole response in the rest of the thread is boorish. I'm fine with friend or foe, because they are in reality, just coloured blobs
- cassepipe 8mo ago
  For once a "this is a very HN" comment seems earned but I think it just marks you at not really the target audience for HN One of the reason we come to HN is that curiosity and caring about details is rewarded and makes for great discussion Also your comment has no substance. I stand totally unimpressed by your opposition between the whole and the details and I fail to see how this is relevant. Care to explain what tackling the whole would look like ? Or are you just trying to handwawe away some potential issue you are too lazy to consider just because you like the project ? Note that IIRC the guidelines ask you to refrain from "This is HN/reddit" comments because they are fundamentally uninteresting (and lazy)
  - jimnotgym 8mo ago
    > I think it just marks you at not really the target audience for HN This has some pretty serious connotations. I have been here for an awful long time for someone who is not a target audience, please take a moment of self reflection at that. I don't think nitpicking is a synonym for 'caring about details'. I am acusing commenters of picking on unimportant details, and I'm acusing them of doing it because it is easier than the more substantive concerns that are further down the thread. It looks superficially clever, but is actually just pedantry. > because you like the project ? That kind of statement is intellectually dishonest. I wont be installing this extension, but not because of a name for the buttons that didn't form part of the UI. > Note that IIRC the guidelines ask you to refrain from Well, I just checked rather than relying on the my fallible memory and, and I don't believe it does. If you want to police people's comments, perhaps take a little more care.
    - cassepipe 8mo ago
ehnto 8mo ago
Agree, one of the great parts of HN is that we can still have wholehearted, earnest discussions with people we disagree with. I don't think bringing the combative nature of other platforms makes sense here. We're not at war with eachother or people we disagree with, as much as most media outlets want that to be the case.
michaelbuckbee 8mo ago
"signal/noise" possibly?

jacquesm 8mo ago

That's just Slashdot's influence. They did the same thing at some point.

ineedasername 8mo ago
Ah, okay-- though that doesn't mean the author can't do better, if I'm not just being too nitpicky.
- jacquesm 8mo ago
  The last thing HN needs is to become more like Slashdot.
  - avadodin 8mo ago
    In Soviet Russia, Slashdot becomes HN!
    - grepfru_it 8mo ago
      Can you imagine a beowulf cluster of HNs?
- Lerc 8mo ago
  Dot product of opinions? Using a fancier term for the same thing might be a significant axis though.
  - globalnode 8mo ago
    maximize your projection onto like minded commenters, create that bubble you always yearned for but until now have never had the add-on to empower the inner-you! finally, you can ignore that filthy plane of delusional outcasts and banish them to the orthogonal abyss forever.
unethical_ban 8mo ago
I've wanted something like this for a long time and also thought of the slashdot system. This is directly from that.

logicprog 8mo ago

Agreed, independent of where the terminology came from, I think if you're trying to promote healthier engagement both for yourself and others using this extension, then not having such adversarial names it's probably a good idea. It should just end up being a sort of web of trust to help you decide what's worth engaging with — and sometimes perfectly valid people that you're not actually enemies with or anything just aren't worth your time engaging with because of fundamental axiological or positional differences.

rustystump 8mo ago

I like friend and foe far more than engage and ignore. A foe isnt someone you ignore. Ignoring is what builds bubbles. A foe can often be right even if you disagree.

XorNot 8mo ago
People I want to ignore I usually disagree with as well, but that's not the problem: the problem is they are repetitive and boring.
- rustystump 8mo ago
  I sure hope the disagreement to ignore ven diagram doesnt look like that. If u never engage, how will you ever know you were wrong about something repetitive and boring?
  - XorNot 8mo ago
    Which is not at all what I wrote. Most things are interesting if you look deeply into them. People on the other hand can be repetitive and boring about them. Which would extend to the excessive use of meta-argument: complaining people aren't listening but also not actually saying anything of substance.
ineedasername 8mo ago
A foe is also someone you might preemptively punch in the face if they get too close before you could determine if they actually meant you harm right then. I'd prefer not to label things such that I'm justifying the label's negative potential by the disproportionately small "even if" range of positive ones.
- rustystump 8mo ago
  Woh there cowboy we are talking about online chat miles away. If u dont like it, cool beans. I like it. sometimes my greatest foes become my dearest friends. Funny how life works that way.

WorldMaker 8mo ago

Follow/Distance?

wartywhoa23 8mo ago
[flagged]
conesus 8mo ago
Ahh, I have you green orbed, and I recognize your username from NB. The system works!
- card_zero 8mo ago
  What do you gain from this?
  - conesus 8mo ago
    I mean the entire extension is about this, but I can quickly scan this thread (or others) and spot my favored commenters.
    - card_zero 8mo ago
      Yes, and you just found that you "favor" WorldMaker, and therefore ... read the suggestion "Follow/Distance?" more eagerly? If that suggestion (which I suppose you'll ignore anyway, but maybe it inspires some other thought in you) came from a foe, then ... you'd be directed away from paying attention to it? Because you've incontinently flipped a colored orb at some point in the past, and now you're going to use that statistical information to direct you to where the most inspiring ideas mostly are? I see. But maybe this is not very high quality information in the first place (the information that you provide for yourself by flicking an orb)?

deleted 8mo ago

[deleted]

ting0 8mo ago

That's such a friend thing to say!

tyre 8mo ago

favorite / potato Although there are some commenters I would want to follow because they are potato. There is something so magical about some of the more delulu Take Havers around here.

pavel_lishin 8mo ago
potato / tomato?
scrozier 8mo ago
As a boomer, I had fun trying to decode your last sentence!

groby_b 8mo ago

I'd suggest to move even beyond "engage/ignore". This is HN. The focus should be "does this person provide interesting or thought provoking comments", not "relationships" or "engagement". There are plenty of HN commenters whose opinions I absolutely dislike (I'm sure it's mutual ;), but I still read them - they are at least well reasoned or point out missing facts. I don't have to like them to learn from them.

raddan 8mo ago

Bring back hot or not!

derefr 8mo ago

That would imply a slightly different semantics than what the extension currently provides, though. If you truly want certain users to be "ignored", then you probably want any of their comments (and the subtree of descendant comments) to be hidden/collapsed/made less legible, so that you don't accidentally read them, and thereby don't accidentally get rage-baited by them into wasting your day arguing with them. Same as e.g. kill files on Usenet. Given that this comment collapsing/hiding/visibility-decreasing is something already built into HN (for comments/subtrees with strongly-negative score), it'd be really easy for the extension to hijack this functionality for its own purposes... if it actually wanted the red button to mean "ignore". That the extension doesn't do that, implies to me that the extensions intended semantics for "foes" isn't "I don't want to engage with this person" but rather "I want to notice this person more." Perhaps "so that I can take the opportunity to actively antagonize them / argue with everything they say." (I'm not saying that this is a good thing; just that insofar as "the purpose of a system is what it does", this is the purpose of a plain "foe" signal!)

polotics 8mo ago

I propose: Bubble/Whistle

jimnotgym 8mo ago

I see this as a very hn type commenting. Nitpicking over semantics rather than engaging the whole. Your comment is fine, but the whole response in the rest of the thread is boorish. I'm fine with friend or foe, because they are in reality, just coloured blobs

cassepipe 8mo ago
For once a "this is a very HN" comment seems earned but I think it just marks you at not really the target audience for HN One of the reason we come to HN is that curiosity and caring about details is rewarded and makes for great discussion Also your comment has no substance. I stand totally unimpressed by your opposition between the whole and the details and I fail to see how this is relevant. Care to explain what tackling the whole would look like ? Or are you just trying to handwawe away some potential issue you are too lazy to consider just because you like the project ? Note that IIRC the guidelines ask you to refrain from "This is HN/reddit" comments because they are fundamentally uninteresting (and lazy)
- jimnotgym 8mo ago
  > I think it just marks you at not really the target audience for HN This has some pretty serious connotations. I have been here for an awful long time for someone who is not a target audience, please take a moment of self reflection at that. I don't think nitpicking is a synonym for 'caring about details'. I am acusing commenters of picking on unimportant details, and I'm acusing them of doing it because it is easier than the more substantive concerns that are further down the thread. It looks superficially clever, but is actually just pedantry. > because you like the project ? That kind of statement is intellectually dishonest. I wont be installing this extension, but not because of a name for the buttons that didn't form part of the UI. > Note that IIRC the guidelines ask you to refrain from Well, I just checked rather than relying on the my fallible memory and, and I don't believe it does. If you want to police people's comments, perhaps take a little more care.
  - cassepipe 8mo ago

ehnto 8mo ago

Agree, one of the great parts of HN is that we can still have wholehearted, earnest discussions with people we disagree with. I don't think bringing the combative nature of other platforms makes sense here. We're not at war with eachother or people we disagree with, as much as most media outlets want that to be the case.

michaelbuckbee 8mo ago

"signal/noise" possibly?