7 ms·

The Pentagon Feuding with an AI Company Is a Bad Sign

65 points by Jimmc414 8mo ago

Jimmc414 8mo ago
https://archive.is/lvViA https://archive.is/lvViA
sedivy94 8mo ago
Anthropic signed a $200 million contract with the world’s largest military and hadn’t considered if it would be used for military operations? When an article reads like fiction, I can’t help but assume there’s an entirely different political disagreement happening behind closed doors.
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
- mgraczyk 8mo ago
  The contract included the agreement, and the government is now trying to change the contract, hence the disagreement
- evanb 8mo ago
  They did consider it, got a contract that affirmed that the military would be bound by the same pre-existing terms of service as every other user, and want to resist the military's pressure to renegotiate. Surely that might be naive but the entire issue is that they want to stick to the original contract, which is of course the purpose of a contract in the first place.
- sigmar 8mo ago
  >Anthropic has repeatedly asked defense officials to agree to guardrails that would restrict its AI model... also wants to ensure Claude is not used by the Pentagon for final targeting decisions in military operations without any human involvement, one source familiar with the negotiations said. Claude is not immune from hallucinations and not reliable enough to avoid potentially lethal mistakes, like unintended escalation or mission failure without human judgment, the person said. They explicitly allow it to be used in military operations, just not killing people without a human in the loop source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pentagon-anthropic-offer-ai-unrestricted-military-use-sources/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pentagon-anthropic-offer-ai-unr...
danesparza 8mo ago
Are they still feuding? I thought it was a moot point: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47145963 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47145963
- sebzim4500 8mo ago
  The dispute is over the completely automated operation of lethal weapons powered by Anthropic's products, it has nothing to do with AI safety.
  - danesparza 8mo ago
    I mean, it has a little to do with AI safety.
franciscator 8mo ago
Don't get distracted. This technology is going to be used to kill people.
- tinfoilhatter 8mo ago
  Probably already is. I'm confident that whatever us plebs get access to is less capable than what nation states do.
- mothballed 8mo ago
  Lol the CEO of Palantir already bragged that occasionally his enemies have to be killed.[] It's honestly wild watching companies with common investors, and when you dig into the details, their executives are bragging about killing their enemies. And then people argue that when surveillance is used to systematically individually stalk all of us it's magically not illegal, even though if you did that to a bunch of your ex girlfriends tracking all their movements to work and the grocery store and argued 'muh free speech to record' your ass would be in jail lickity split because there is a big difference between recording the public and stalking people while conspiring with people who are literally bragging about the killing of their enemies. [] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5gC_fParbY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5gC_fParbY
  - delfinom 8mo ago
    CEO of Palantir looks like he does lines of coke in the bathroom before speaking. I don't know if anything that cokehead says can be taken seriously or true.
    - mothballed 8mo ago
      The year of that earnings call the stock went up 5x. He could have walked up naked and given an hallucinogenic induced speech and his investors would have lapped it up. This was a moment where a CEO was able to actually speak his mind without reproach. A rare glimpse where you learn what these surveillance companies are actually thinking.
  - 8mo ago
neogodless 8mo ago
Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47154983 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47154983 The Pentagon threatens Anthropic (astralcodexten.com) ~1 day ago, 115+ comments
noonething 8mo ago
It's been bad since 2015. All the A.I. companies are in on it now.
- tinfoilhatter 8mo ago
  Military and intelligence agencies have been involved in Silicon Valley for its entire existence. They were instrumental in helping to create the first computers. The internet was a DARPA project. Facebook sprung up from a failed DARPA project called lifelog. Google received funding from the military industrial complex / intelligence agencies early in its life. These companies have always had a dual-purpose, and I highly doubt the major players in AI are any different.
yosito 8mo ago
"Anthropic had built its brand around promoting AI safety, emphasizing red lines it said it wouldn’t cross. Its usage guidelines contain strict limitations that prohibit Claude from facilitating violence, developing or designing weapons, or conducting mass surveillance." I can't say that I fully trust this at face value, but I will say, at least at face value, that this commitment to non-violence is something I wish more tech companies in history had made. Whether it's an authentic commitment or just PR remains to be fully seen.
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
FrustratedMonky 8mo ago
Just ask at high level. The military has a problem on limiting its ability to do mass surveillance of the US public. Why? Why would it have a problem with that limitation? The issues in the contract under dispute are things we shouldn't want the military doing.
ChrisArchitect 8mo ago
Related: Hegseth gives Anthropic until Friday to back down on AI safeguards https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47140734 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47140734 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47142587 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47142587 Tech companies shouldn't be bullied into doing surveillance https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47160226 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47160226
dnautics 8mo ago
it's a good sign? We are having these debates, and it's aired in public?

65 points by Jimmc414 8mo ago

https://archive.is/lvViA https://archive.is/lvViA

Anthropic signed a $200 million contract with the world’s largest military and hadn’t considered if it would be used for military operations? When an article reads like fiction, I can’t help but assume there’s an entirely different political disagreement happening behind closed doors.

deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
mgraczyk 8mo ago
The contract included the agreement, and the government is now trying to change the contract, hence the disagreement
evanb 8mo ago
They did consider it, got a contract that affirmed that the military would be bound by the same pre-existing terms of service as every other user, and want to resist the military's pressure to renegotiate. Surely that might be naive but the entire issue is that they want to stick to the original contract, which is of course the purpose of a contract in the first place.
sigmar 8mo ago
>Anthropic has repeatedly asked defense officials to agree to guardrails that would restrict its AI model... also wants to ensure Claude is not used by the Pentagon for final targeting decisions in military operations without any human involvement, one source familiar with the negotiations said. Claude is not immune from hallucinations and not reliable enough to avoid potentially lethal mistakes, like unintended escalation or mission failure without human judgment, the person said. They explicitly allow it to be used in military operations, just not killing people without a human in the loop source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pentagon-anthropic-offer-ai-unrestricted-military-use-sources/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pentagon-anthropic-offer-ai-unr...

danesparza 8mo ago

Are they still feuding? I thought it was a moot point: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47145963 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47145963

sebzim4500 8mo ago
The dispute is over the completely automated operation of lethal weapons powered by Anthropic's products, it has nothing to do with AI safety.
- danesparza 8mo ago
  I mean, it has a little to do with AI safety.

franciscator 8mo ago

Don't get distracted. This technology is going to be used to kill people.

tinfoilhatter 8mo ago
Probably already is. I'm confident that whatever us plebs get access to is less capable than what nation states do.
mothballed 8mo ago
Lol the CEO of Palantir already bragged that occasionally his enemies have to be killed.[] It's honestly wild watching companies with common investors, and when you dig into the details, their executives are bragging about killing their enemies. And then people argue that when surveillance is used to systematically individually stalk all of us it's magically not illegal, even though if you did that to a bunch of your ex girlfriends tracking all their movements to work and the grocery store and argued 'muh free speech to record' your ass would be in jail lickity split because there is a big difference between recording the public and stalking people while conspiring with people who are literally bragging about the killing of their enemies. [] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5gC_fParbY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5gC_fParbY
- delfinom 8mo ago
  CEO of Palantir looks like he does lines of coke in the bathroom before speaking. I don't know if anything that cokehead says can be taken seriously or true.
  - mothballed 8mo ago
    The year of that earnings call the stock went up 5x. He could have walked up naked and given an hallucinogenic induced speech and his investors would have lapped it up. This was a moment where a CEO was able to actually speak his mind without reproach. A rare glimpse where you learn what these surveillance companies are actually thinking.
- 8mo ago

neogodless 8mo ago

Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47154983 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47154983 The Pentagon threatens Anthropic (astralcodexten.com) ~1 day ago, 115+ comments

noonething 8mo ago

It's been bad since 2015. All the A.I. companies are in on it now.

tinfoilhatter 8mo ago
Military and intelligence agencies have been involved in Silicon Valley for its entire existence. They were instrumental in helping to create the first computers. The internet was a DARPA project. Facebook sprung up from a failed DARPA project called lifelog. Google received funding from the military industrial complex / intelligence agencies early in its life. These companies have always had a dual-purpose, and I highly doubt the major players in AI are any different.

yosito 8mo ago

"Anthropic had built its brand around promoting AI safety, emphasizing red lines it said it wouldn’t cross. Its usage guidelines contain strict limitations that prohibit Claude from facilitating violence, developing or designing weapons, or conducting mass surveillance." I can't say that I fully trust this at face value, but I will say, at least at face value, that this commitment to non-violence is something I wish more tech companies in history had made. Whether it's an authentic commitment or just PR remains to be fully seen.

deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]

FrustratedMonky 8mo ago

Just ask at high level. The military has a problem on limiting its ability to do mass surveillance of the US public. Why? Why would it have a problem with that limitation? The issues in the contract under dispute are things we shouldn't want the military doing.

ChrisArchitect 8mo ago

Related: Hegseth gives Anthropic until Friday to back down on AI safeguards https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47140734 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47140734 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47142587 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47142587 Tech companies shouldn't be bullied into doing surveillance https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47160226 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47160226

dnautics 8mo ago

it's a good sign? We are having these debates, and it's aired in public?