4 ms·

I would half like to move back to the UK, but I'm terribly worried that after jumping through all the hoops so that my EU citizen partner could come with us and

I would half like to move back to the UK, but I'm terribly worried that after jumping through all the hoops so that my EU citizen partner could come with us and be a part our children's lives that Reform would get in and throw out all the "undesirables" (basically anyone without a British Passport at first, sure they won't stop there). I'm really not sure how likely them attaining power is, but it sure looks like a terrible but possible future from afar. :(

Havoc 7mo ago
For what it’s worth I’ve had zero problems thus far (under eu settled scheme)
- graemep 7mo ago
  They have missed the EU settled scheme so its going to have to be a normal visa - so either the partner has to be skilled or wealthy enough to qualify, or it has to be a spouse visa.
  - Havoc 7mo ago
    Ah right. Well there are changes incoming shortly for that which could either be favourable or not depending on partners circumstances. Eg there is a high earner thing that shortens path etc
Nursie 7mo ago
As a brit also watching from afar... It does seem scarily likely, but he still has a few years to really screw things up before we get there. Fingers crossed. Without a large-scale cock-up, I don't see Starmer as inspiring enough to stop him unfortunately. Lets hope someone else steps up to the plate with a bit more charisma.
RobotToaster 7mo ago
Unless something major happens I'm almost certain they'll either win the next election or be part of a coalition. About the only thing that can stop them is the Tories holding onto relevance enough to split their vote again.
- ejejee 7mo ago
  It’s not likely at all that they’ll win the next election lmao.
ozlikethewizard 7mo ago
If (more likely when but gotta stay optimistic) the fascists do take power there will be people that fight. There already are so many people standing up. My recommendation for a non-brit would unfortunately be to avoid moving to anywhere that could be classified as Little England. I'm fortunate enough to live in the bubble that is the "UKs happiest city", and while you cant pretend racism / xenophobia are extinct here, people do stick up for eachother and mind their own businesses. The UK is great, even so for immigrants, its just finding those pockets of tolerance and kindness in an ever growing sea of shite. British people need to focus on rebuilding our strong local communities that were smashed by Thatcher, and then this too shall pass.
- graemep 7mo ago
  Its funny how all the racism is happening somewhere else in the country, but very few people experience it themselves. Survey data supports this. I have lived in several parts of the UK, have friends in many more. I currently live in a very white village. I am visible ethnic minority. I see no sign of racism. I know of a few overt racists at second or third hand (they know someone who knows someone I know). There is lots of racism on social media, but even most of that is in reaction to ragebait posts, some posted by people who are not even British.
  - ozlikethewizard 7mo ago
    That's great for you! Not sure a single anecdotal experience outweighs the measurable rise in race related crime and the systemic issues that have long been present. Add onto that the sheer number of people who voted reform at the last election, and their pretty stellar local election performance thats forecast to only improve. Then cherry on top it with the anti-migrant rhetoric pushed by the majority of British news firms that has undoubtedly ended up influencing some pretty diabolical policy decisions (Rwanda, changes to student visas, leaving the EU when the leave side campaigned on an almost solely anti-migrant platform). And I guess were just ignoring the actual fascist marches in London over the past couple of years? Or the burning of hotels housing refugees? You can bury your head in the sand if you want, and I really am glad you're not suffering, but people are. Them today, you tomorrow.
graemep 7mo ago
I think you are worrying too much and a lot of this is media hype. Their main focus is small boats and people entering the country illegally. If they do restrict them more you are almost certainly better off getting your partner a visa before (but I think you would need to marry to get a spouse visa though). > Reform would get in and throw out all the "undesirables" (basically anyone without a British Passport at first, sure they won't stop there) I think that is an exaggerated view from a distance. I see no evidence they can do that, or want to. At the time of the Brexit campaign Farage said he wanted skilled immigrants (he gave the example of Indian doctors immigrating in the 1970s as the wort of thing he wanted). Nor can the country afford to lose skilled people. Its worth remembering that Reform would not agree to what Elon Musk wanted in return for funding so I think its safe to assume Reform would not be as extreme as the current US government. I am of foreign birth, as is my younger daughter (she was born abroad) and I am not particularly worried. I would worry if Rupert Lowe's Restore party started making gains, or Ben Habib's Advance party. > I'm really not sure how likely them attaining power They are doing well in the polls now but my feeling is they are peaking. Letting on too many Conservative defectors makes them look at lot less of an anti-establishment party (a huge part of their appeal) and they are becoming too extreme (I think in reaction to the splash, mostly on social media) made by Advance and Restore (one of those is what Elon Musk endorses, so that gives you an idea where they are).
- drcongo 7mo ago
  This could easily be copied and pasted from the replies to people who were worried about the rise of facism in the US a couple of years ago.
- pjc50 7mo ago
  The government can very easily change your status from "legal" to "illegal" by flipping a bit. And the newspapers, who are driving this, don't care about skills, they care about the raw numbers. The members of the public driving this don't even care about immigration status, but skin colour.
  - graemep 7mo ago
    They can change people's status, but I am saying they will not. It is not Reform party policy (as Rupert Lowe keeps pointing out!) and it would be disastrous to do it. The net immigration numbers are falling! I disagree about the public. Its very clear that the opposition to immigration is almost entirely about small boats and illegal entry. As for skin colour, of the tiny number or racists I have heard of in real life, one comment repeated back to me made it clear the person involved preferred at least some Asians (those with skills etc.) to Eastern Europeans.
dochne 7mo ago
All of my EU friends living in the UK have now applied for citizenship. The risk profile for "I have indefinite leave to remain" has moved from "this won't be an issue at all" to "we have no trust in the government on this" in a few short years. Profoundly depressing
- graemep 7mo ago
  I really cannot understand why people who are permanently settled in a country would not apply for citizenship. It is not a matter of trust. Unless you are a citizen your right to remain in a country is always subject to the approval of the government and rules can change. it is the point of the distinction between "indefinite leave to remain" and citizenship. I have noticed that only white people commit to living in the UK without becoming citizens. Sindhu Vee is very funny about that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8DNgi5Tok4&t=90s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8DNgi5Tok4&t=90s
  - dmacedo 7mo ago
    Some countries don't allow dual citizenship, which means you'd no longer be a citizen of your country of origin, you know, where your family might live. I have plenty of friends who otherwise would apply, and ILR should be sufficient in a democratic government following social and political contracts.
    - dwedge 7mo ago
      Is that true for any EU countries?
      - roryirvine 7mo ago
        Yes: Austria and Slovakia still do, possibly others as well. And Germany only stopped preventing it within the last year or two. The UK will help circumvent this for current British citizens when they acquire new citizenship in one of those countries (eg. America famously makes you hand over your old passport, but the UK will happily ship you a replacement in an unmarked envelope), but that doesn't really work so well in the other direction.

Havoc 7mo ago

For what it’s worth I’ve had zero problems thus far (under eu settled scheme)

graemep 7mo ago
They have missed the EU settled scheme so its going to have to be a normal visa - so either the partner has to be skilled or wealthy enough to qualify, or it has to be a spouse visa.
- Havoc 7mo ago
  Ah right. Well there are changes incoming shortly for that which could either be favourable or not depending on partners circumstances. Eg there is a high earner thing that shortens path etc

Nursie 7mo ago

As a brit also watching from afar... It does seem scarily likely, but he still has a few years to really screw things up before we get there. Fingers crossed. Without a large-scale cock-up, I don't see Starmer as inspiring enough to stop him unfortunately. Lets hope someone else steps up to the plate with a bit more charisma.

RobotToaster 7mo ago

Unless something major happens I'm almost certain they'll either win the next election or be part of a coalition. About the only thing that can stop them is the Tories holding onto relevance enough to split their vote again.

ejejee 7mo ago
It’s not likely at all that they’ll win the next election lmao.

ozlikethewizard 7mo ago

If (more likely when but gotta stay optimistic) the fascists do take power there will be people that fight. There already are so many people standing up. My recommendation for a non-brit would unfortunately be to avoid moving to anywhere that could be classified as Little England. I'm fortunate enough to live in the bubble that is the "UKs happiest city", and while you cant pretend racism / xenophobia are extinct here, people do stick up for eachother and mind their own businesses. The UK is great, even so for immigrants, its just finding those pockets of tolerance and kindness in an ever growing sea of shite. British people need to focus on rebuilding our strong local communities that were smashed by Thatcher, and then this too shall pass.

graemep 7mo ago
Its funny how all the racism is happening somewhere else in the country, but very few people experience it themselves. Survey data supports this. I have lived in several parts of the UK, have friends in many more. I currently live in a very white village. I am visible ethnic minority. I see no sign of racism. I know of a few overt racists at second or third hand (they know someone who knows someone I know). There is lots of racism on social media, but even most of that is in reaction to ragebait posts, some posted by people who are not even British.
- ozlikethewizard 7mo ago
  That's great for you! Not sure a single anecdotal experience outweighs the measurable rise in race related crime and the systemic issues that have long been present. Add onto that the sheer number of people who voted reform at the last election, and their pretty stellar local election performance thats forecast to only improve. Then cherry on top it with the anti-migrant rhetoric pushed by the majority of British news firms that has undoubtedly ended up influencing some pretty diabolical policy decisions (Rwanda, changes to student visas, leaving the EU when the leave side campaigned on an almost solely anti-migrant platform). And I guess were just ignoring the actual fascist marches in London over the past couple of years? Or the burning of hotels housing refugees? You can bury your head in the sand if you want, and I really am glad you're not suffering, but people are. Them today, you tomorrow.

graemep 7mo ago

I think you are worrying too much and a lot of this is media hype. Their main focus is small boats and people entering the country illegally. If they do restrict them more you are almost certainly better off getting your partner a visa before (but I think you would need to marry to get a spouse visa though). > Reform would get in and throw out all the "undesirables" (basically anyone without a British Passport at first, sure they won't stop there) I think that is an exaggerated view from a distance. I see no evidence they can do that, or want to. At the time of the Brexit campaign Farage said he wanted skilled immigrants (he gave the example of Indian doctors immigrating in the 1970s as the wort of thing he wanted). Nor can the country afford to lose skilled people. Its worth remembering that Reform would not agree to what Elon Musk wanted in return for funding so I think its safe to assume Reform would not be as extreme as the current US government. I am of foreign birth, as is my younger daughter (she was born abroad) and I am not particularly worried. I would worry if Rupert Lowe's Restore party started making gains, or Ben Habib's Advance party. > I'm really not sure how likely them attaining power They are doing well in the polls now but my feeling is they are peaking. Letting on too many Conservative defectors makes them look at lot less of an anti-establishment party (a huge part of their appeal) and they are becoming too extreme (I think in reaction to the splash, mostly on social media) made by Advance and Restore (one of those is what Elon Musk endorses, so that gives you an idea where they are).

drcongo 7mo ago
This could easily be copied and pasted from the replies to people who were worried about the rise of facism in the US a couple of years ago.
pjc50 7mo ago
The government can very easily change your status from "legal" to "illegal" by flipping a bit. And the newspapers, who are driving this, don't care about skills, they care about the raw numbers. The members of the public driving this don't even care about immigration status, but skin colour.
- graemep 7mo ago
  They can change people's status, but I am saying they will not. It is not Reform party policy (as Rupert Lowe keeps pointing out!) and it would be disastrous to do it. The net immigration numbers are falling! I disagree about the public. Its very clear that the opposition to immigration is almost entirely about small boats and illegal entry. As for skin colour, of the tiny number or racists I have heard of in real life, one comment repeated back to me made it clear the person involved preferred at least some Asians (those with skills etc.) to Eastern Europeans.

dochne 7mo ago

All of my EU friends living in the UK have now applied for citizenship. The risk profile for "I have indefinite leave to remain" has moved from "this won't be an issue at all" to "we have no trust in the government on this" in a few short years. Profoundly depressing

graemep 7mo ago
I really cannot understand why people who are permanently settled in a country would not apply for citizenship. It is not a matter of trust. Unless you are a citizen your right to remain in a country is always subject to the approval of the government and rules can change. it is the point of the distinction between "indefinite leave to remain" and citizenship. I have noticed that only white people commit to living in the UK without becoming citizens. Sindhu Vee is very funny about that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8DNgi5Tok4&t=90s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8DNgi5Tok4&t=90s
- dmacedo 7mo ago
  Some countries don't allow dual citizenship, which means you'd no longer be a citizen of your country of origin, you know, where your family might live. I have plenty of friends who otherwise would apply, and ILR should be sufficient in a democratic government following social and political contracts.
  - dwedge 7mo ago
    Is that true for any EU countries?
    - roryirvine 7mo ago
      Yes: Austria and Slovakia still do, possibly others as well. And Germany only stopped preventing it within the last year or two. The UK will help circumvent this for current British citizens when they acquire new citizenship in one of those countries (eg. America famously makes you hand over your old passport, but the UK will happily ship you a replacement in an unmarked envelope), but that doesn't really work so well in the other direction.