4 ms·

I feel like this is so much of an overreaction to a non-issue. The flow is pretty straightforward if you ask me. It’s a few clicks and one page digests of your

I feel like this is so much of an overreaction to a non-issue. The flow is pretty straightforward if you ask me. It’s a few clicks and one page digests of your options. It’s a decision tree to let most people in the world who have either an Android or iOS device easily submit their form quickly, or just proceed with the guidance to just apply online (your preference obviously).

koakuma-chan 7mo ago
But why do they need to make a native app for that? It makes no sense.
- testfrequency 7mo ago
  Convenience. Do you travel with a laptop and open it to scan your boarding pass pdf also?
  - gspr 7mo ago
    Providing it for convenience is fine. Having to accept the terms of conditions of Google or Apple as the only way is insane.
    - testfrequency 7mo ago
      Don’t accept the terms then? What is even the point of this comment when you are provided with an alternative as you make your way through the form. I feel like everyone I’m responding to just hates Apple/Google and is running GrapheneOS without play services so they hate public apps.
      - koakuma-chan 7mo ago
        No, installing apps is just genuinely bad UX, at least for me, because my password manager doesn't work in apps, and I have to manually generate and copy and paste password. If creators of the app are extra stupid, they make it so that you cannot paste into the password input, so I have to enter the generated password character by character.
        klausa 7mo ago
        You use a broken password manager, and you think this is a problem with _apps_?
        koakuma-chan 7mo ago
        And why is it broken? Is there a way for a password manager app to somehow inspect other apps and identify forms within them and interact with the forms?
        klausa 7mo ago
        ...yes? I can't tell if you're trolling at this point or genuinely unaware. Both iOS and Android have APIs for this, you (as the app developer) just mark the relevant fields in the app as login/password/etc, and the OS will interact with your chosen password manager to autofill and/or save them.
        koakuma-chan 7mo ago
        Well then I don't know whom to blame, 1Password or app developers not marking the fields correctly.
        klausa 7mo ago
        If you've never seen this work on your device, then you might have something configured incorrectly — many app developers are incompetent and bad at this; but not _all_ of them.
        koakuma-chan 7mo ago
        It works for filling an existing password, but not for creating a new one, iOS still prompts me to fill existing even though I'm on the sign up page. On the web 1Password can also automatically generate a Fastmail masked email address, but I doubt there's any hope for that to work in a native app.
  - koakuma-chan 7mo ago
    It's more convenient to open a website than it is to install an app.
gspr 7mo ago
This is an insane take. Apple and Google both reserve the right to deny accounts to people without any legal appeal at worst. At best, a legal dispute would have to be resolved in US courts. How other countries (including my own) accept that as a condition to use public services is beyond belief, and pointing this out is not an overreaction. Why are we willingly placing private companies – private companies subject to foreign jurisdictions, even! – in the role of gatekeepers of public services? We have surely completely lost our minds!
- testfrequency 7mo ago
  You can literally just use the online form. Have you actually tried using your search engine to query applying, and seeing just how easy it is to optionally apply online? Over half of the world’s population is using an Android or iOS device. Most people visiting a country in the UK or have the means to afford a trip, most likely have a functioning mobile phone. I find it somewhat amusing you think I’m “insane” for suggesting most of the modern world has a relatively accessible Android or iOS device to apply for a visa.
  - gspr 7mo ago
    > You can literally just use the online form. Have you actually tried using your search engine to query applying, and seeing just how easy it is to optionally apply online? This whole story is about how they're trying to pressure you into using the app. > Over half of the world’s population is using an Android or iOS device. Most people visiting a country like the UK or have the means to afford a trip, most likely have a functioning mobile phone. That does not in any way affect any of what I wrote. I'll try to write it differently: Do you think it's OK that Google and Apple decide (at worst on their very own without oversight, at best with the oversight of a foreign country that isn't the one you're travelling to or from) who gets to do these things and under what conditions? > I find it someone amusing you think I’m “insane” for suggesting most of the modern world has a relatively accessible android or iOS device to apply for a visa. I find it insane that you think that because Google and Apple happen to grace most people with access to Android and iOS, then it's fine that we all live by their mercy.
squidbeak 7mo ago
There should always be web fallbacks for those opposed to smartphones or unable to use them. Insisting the elderly use them for any type of bureaucratic flow results too often in stress and confusion.
- ageitgey 7mo ago
  > There should always be web fallbacks for those opposed to smartphones or unable to use them. And there is a web fallback. And it's right there on the page. Honestly, I think they did a pretty good job.
drstewart 7mo ago
>The flow is pretty straightforward if you ask me. I I think that about a lot of the cancellation flows posted on here that people consider "dark patterns". Skip an upsell or two, decline a pause offer, bam, cancellation page.

koakuma-chan 7mo ago

But why do they need to make a native app for that? It makes no sense.

testfrequency 7mo ago
Convenience. Do you travel with a laptop and open it to scan your boarding pass pdf also?
- gspr 7mo ago
  Providing it for convenience is fine. Having to accept the terms of conditions of Google or Apple as the only way is insane.
  - testfrequency 7mo ago
    Don’t accept the terms then? What is even the point of this comment when you are provided with an alternative as you make your way through the form. I feel like everyone I’m responding to just hates Apple/Google and is running GrapheneOS without play services so they hate public apps.
    - koakuma-chan 7mo ago
      No, installing apps is just genuinely bad UX, at least for me, because my password manager doesn't work in apps, and I have to manually generate and copy and paste password. If creators of the app are extra stupid, they make it so that you cannot paste into the password input, so I have to enter the generated password character by character.
      - klausa 7mo ago
        You use a broken password manager, and you think this is a problem with _apps_?
        koakuma-chan 7mo ago
        And why is it broken? Is there a way for a password manager app to somehow inspect other apps and identify forms within them and interact with the forms?
        klausa 7mo ago
        ...yes? I can't tell if you're trolling at this point or genuinely unaware. Both iOS and Android have APIs for this, you (as the app developer) just mark the relevant fields in the app as login/password/etc, and the OS will interact with your chosen password manager to autofill and/or save them.
        koakuma-chan 7mo ago
        Well then I don't know whom to blame, 1Password or app developers not marking the fields correctly.
        klausa 7mo ago
        If you've never seen this work on your device, then you might have something configured incorrectly — many app developers are incompetent and bad at this; but not _all_ of them.
        koakuma-chan 7mo ago
        It works for filling an existing password, but not for creating a new one, iOS still prompts me to fill existing even though I'm on the sign up page. On the web 1Password can also automatically generate a Fastmail masked email address, but I doubt there's any hope for that to work in a native app.
- koakuma-chan 7mo ago
  It's more convenient to open a website than it is to install an app.

gspr 7mo ago

This is an insane take. Apple and Google both reserve the right to deny accounts to people without any legal appeal at worst. At best, a legal dispute would have to be resolved in US courts. How other countries (including my own) accept that as a condition to use public services is beyond belief, and pointing this out is not an overreaction. Why are we willingly placing private companies – private companies subject to foreign jurisdictions, even! – in the role of gatekeepers of public services? We have surely completely lost our minds!

testfrequency 7mo ago
You can literally just use the online form. Have you actually tried using your search engine to query applying, and seeing just how easy it is to optionally apply online? Over half of the world’s population is using an Android or iOS device. Most people visiting a country in the UK or have the means to afford a trip, most likely have a functioning mobile phone. I find it somewhat amusing you think I’m “insane” for suggesting most of the modern world has a relatively accessible Android or iOS device to apply for a visa.
- gspr 7mo ago
  > You can literally just use the online form. Have you actually tried using your search engine to query applying, and seeing just how easy it is to optionally apply online? This whole story is about how they're trying to pressure you into using the app. > Over half of the world’s population is using an Android or iOS device. Most people visiting a country like the UK or have the means to afford a trip, most likely have a functioning mobile phone. That does not in any way affect any of what I wrote. I'll try to write it differently: Do you think it's OK that Google and Apple decide (at worst on their very own without oversight, at best with the oversight of a foreign country that isn't the one you're travelling to or from) who gets to do these things and under what conditions? > I find it someone amusing you think I’m “insane” for suggesting most of the modern world has a relatively accessible android or iOS device to apply for a visa. I find it insane that you think that because Google and Apple happen to grace most people with access to Android and iOS, then it's fine that we all live by their mercy.

squidbeak 7mo ago

There should always be web fallbacks for those opposed to smartphones or unable to use them. Insisting the elderly use them for any type of bureaucratic flow results too often in stress and confusion.

ageitgey 7mo ago
> There should always be web fallbacks for those opposed to smartphones or unable to use them. And there is a web fallback. And it's right there on the page. Honestly, I think they did a pretty good job.

drstewart 7mo ago

>The flow is pretty straightforward if you ask me. I I think that about a lot of the cancellation flows posted on here that people consider "dark patterns". Skip an upsell or two, decline a pause offer, bam, cancellation page.