5 ms·

How? It's not like people can just decide to move to another country and they will say "sure, come on in!" right? Are they getting visas from work or a spouse

How? It's not like people can just decide to move to another country and they will say "sure, come on in!" right? Are they getting visas from work or a spouse or something? Surely that does not account for a vast majority of cases?

kalleboo 8mo ago
I have several US friends who got European citizenship through ancestry. They found a great grandmother or something from "the old country" and by proving their relation to them could get a passport.
- UncleOxidant 8mo ago
  That got me to googling around since my grandfather was born in Germany and came to the US when he was 5 (circa 1920). But from what I'm finding it sounds like when he became a US citizen that tie to German citizenship was broken. Also, prior to 1975 the citizenship only passed down through the father - it was my maternal grandfather so it wouldn't pass down, apparently. Well, it was fun to think about the possibilities for a few minutes, anyway.
  - OneMorePerson 8mo ago
    Your case sounds complicated so I'm not sure, but two things to note: 1. US is one of only a few countries where children emigrating with parents don't officially declare intent to immigrate, they do it automatically with their parents. This means that your grandfather (whether he was aware or not) was still German, since German law says you only give it up if you "take action to immigrate" or something like that. Likewise every child since then (your mother and you) were born as US citizens "involuntarily" (as in you didn't choose) so you also retained your citizenship. 2. In 2021 Section 5 of the StAG law was updated to say that people born to German mothers between 1949-1975 are now eligible, it was updated since male only was seen as discriminatory. So theoretically say grandfather -> mother (born to male) -> you (post 1949). Not an expert so double check this. Im not an expert but my understanding of your case would be that you are not even needing to apply for status, you are literally German now, and just need to request a passport (check this with the resources on Reddit I mention below). I'd recommend checking Reddit "German Citizenship by Descent" resources. There's a couple profile names you will see there really frequently who are German citizens who can help you in finding paperwork from German government resources if needed (old birth certificates, etc.) for a small fee. You can also see public threads where people explain their case and you can see if you find one similar to yours. Example: https://www.reddit.com/r/Genealogy/comments/scvkwb/german_citizenship_by_descent_the_ultimate_guide/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Genealogy/comments/scvkwb/german_ci...
    - UncleOxidant 8mo ago
      Oh, wow. Thanks for that link. So it sounds like it could be possible.
analog31 8mo ago
One option is dual citizenship, which varies by country. I know about half a dozen people who are in various stages of applying.
WD-42 8mo ago
Maybe not North America and Europe, but with proof of income most countries most definitely will tell you sure, come on in!
toomuchtodo 8mo ago
If you are in Spain on a tourist visa, and apply for the equivalent of a digital nomad visa while in country, you get three years as a temporary resident. At three years, you re-apply for another two years, and after those five years you can apply for permanent residency. 80% of your income must come from outside of Spain. They’ll even take a letter from a US W2 employer as income verification. One example of an exit strategy you can move on almost immediately, depending on your circumstances. Resources: https://relocateme.substack.com/ https://relocateme.substack.com/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AmerExit/comments/urwlbr/a_guide_for_americans_that_want_to_get_out_of/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AmerExit/comments/urwlbr/a_guide_fo... https://old.reddit.com/user/Shufflebuzz/comments/1iv4dud/shufflebuzzs_guide_to_citizenship_by_descent/ https://old.reddit.com/user/Shufflebuzz/comments/1iv4dud/shu... https://www.helpmeleave.us/ https://www.helpmeleave.us/ https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/act-changes/rules-2025.html https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/se... (Canadian citizenship by descent) https://lookerstudio.google.com/reporting/b58914ce-b98d-4330-8460-a2e8d22d9061/page/TVrHF https://lookerstudio.google.com/reporting/b58914ce-b98d-4330... from https://pancakeonastick.substack.com/ https://pancakeonastick.substack.com/ (Digital Nomad Visa Map)
Bender 8mo ago
There are a few dozen countries that one can buy citizenship. Some require investing in something or starting their own business. Search for "countries that offer citizenship for money". Some places will pay for people to move their under certain conditions and lack of criminal history.
- toomuchtodo 8mo ago
  “Golden visa” and “citizenship by investment” are good search terms to use.
socalgal2 8mo ago
According to an LLM I asked, about 80 countries have a way in for $$$. I was superprized it was as high as 80, assuming I can beleive the answer. I knew though that the USA is one of them. Also Singapore, since it was big news when the co-founder of Facebook did it.
peterlk 8mo ago
I have quite a bit of family in Germany, and have had several friends move from the US to Europe. Europe absolutely knows that they have an opportunity to capture a ton of talent right now. If you have skills that are in demand, basically any country in the Schengen zone will find a way to get you a visa. For example, if you’re a trans researcher, you will find open arms at academic institutions in Europe. You could also lie and claim your address as a US address, and then just live in another country. This is obviously illegal, but I’ve met a few people who made it work for a while. But I’m also speaking abstractly on the internet, so maybe I’m just making all this up.
ytoawwhra92 8mo ago
> It's not like people can just decide to move to another country and they will say "sure, come on in!" Many countries actively try to attract skilled migrants with simple, points-based immigration systems and fast processing times. Simply having a bachelor's degree, 5+ years of work experience, and fluency in the local language will get you on the fast-track to a permanent working visa in many countries.
- archagon 8mo ago
  At least as far as tech migrants are concerned, the points floor for Canada and Australia has become quite high in recent years.
popularonion 8mo ago
Destination Thailand Visa is comically easy to get if you have ~$20K in savings
ProllyInfamous 8mo ago
Almost without exception, any US citizen can perform self-employed work in Netherlands via the DAFT program. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAFT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAFT> This can lead to eventual citizenship, but you have to follow the rules (e.g. monetary requirements, which are actually quite low).
- TrueGeek 8mo ago
  > monetary requirements, which are actually quite low Technically, yes - you are required to hold only €4,500 as an "investment" in the business you create. In reality you will need a lot more. My wife and I spent about €40k to move over which is inline with what others on the DAFT program have said they spent. Completely worth it though!
  - archagon 8mo ago
    From my research, the biggest roadblock these days seems to be lack of housing.
  - ProllyInfamous 8mo ago
    What was your final motivator to depart [mine: crony capitalism e.g. healthcare setup]? Were ya'll's companies already established, or created in the moving process? Citizens, yet [spekin de Dutch yet eh]? Lastly: is living in Maastricht similar to living in a US state panhandle (e.g. benefits of: border shopping; tax reasons). What drew ya'll south (V.e.g: Amsterdam)? Any suggestions/websites for a single electrician that's been thinking about DAFT for over a decade? My own would be YouTuber Not Just Bikes (expatriated to Utrecht for traffic engineering).
    - TrueGeek 8mo ago
      > What was your final motivator to depart Our main motivator was that we watched our grandparents grow older and just stop moving. I absolutely love America, but you do spend the majority of your time sitting. I'm not inactive, I do ultras, I hike, etc. But that doesn't make up for the fact that we're just always sitting - at home, at work, in the car. We wanted to live somewhere that would force us out of that. > Were ya'll's companies already established I had an LLC I used for contracting in the US, but the DAFT visa required setting up a new Dutch corporation. > Citizens, yet We're currently applying for our first visa renewal. Next time we'll be elligible for PR. Citizenship would require us to give up our US citizenship and I don't want to do that. > is living in Maastricht similar to living in a US state panhandle It kinda is. We don't have a car, but we do have neighbors that only grocery shop in Germany because it's cheaper. > What drew ya'll south (V.e.g: Amsterdam)? I just couldn't imagine living anywhere so flat and so far from forests / mountains. We still don't have proper forests in Maastricht, but I can be in the forests of Belgium or Germany in 20 minutes. > Any suggestions/websites for a single electrician that's been thinking about DAFT for over a decade? No websites, but just as someone who has tried to hire an electrician in both countries it seems like the shortage is greater here. It really seems like you could just come over and have a lot of work.
UncleOxidant 8mo ago
If you're a doctor or nurse Canada is definitely saying "sure, come on in!" - they're actively recruiting in the US for healthcare workers. But that's because like most other countries they've got a shortage of health care workers. They're not likely to tell us software engineers that we can com on in.
ageitgey 8mo ago
It's very hard to get a UK work visa normally (and getting a lot harder each year, like in the US), but if you are a HN type with a good tech, start-up, investor, or researcher career, they roll out the red carpet for you. https://www.gov.uk/global-talent https://www.gov.uk/global-talent If you qualify, you get a 'Tier 1' visa where you can work at any company without sponsorship, change jobs at any time just like a citizen, or start your own company with no fear of your visa being tied to a job. You can become a citizen yourself in 5 years. Source: Am now UK citizen Various other European countries have similar programs with different requirements. Netherlands, Portugal, and Spain are common places that a lot of US people go depending on what options they have to qualify and where they want to be. Spain has a digital nomad visa right now that is easy to get.
reaperducer 8mo ago
How? It's not like people can just decide to move to another country and they will say "sure, come on in!" right? If you read the article, you'd see that for some countries that is almost precisely what happens.
- ranger_danger 8mo ago
  The website blocks my ISP unfortunately, so I am not able to read it. Same thing when trying with a VPN as well. And the archive.ph link posted elsewhere in this thread is an endless captcha loop for me.

kalleboo 8mo ago

I have several US friends who got European citizenship through ancestry. They found a great grandmother or something from "the old country" and by proving their relation to them could get a passport.

UncleOxidant 8mo ago
That got me to googling around since my grandfather was born in Germany and came to the US when he was 5 (circa 1920). But from what I'm finding it sounds like when he became a US citizen that tie to German citizenship was broken. Also, prior to 1975 the citizenship only passed down through the father - it was my maternal grandfather so it wouldn't pass down, apparently. Well, it was fun to think about the possibilities for a few minutes, anyway.
- OneMorePerson 8mo ago
  Your case sounds complicated so I'm not sure, but two things to note: 1. US is one of only a few countries where children emigrating with parents don't officially declare intent to immigrate, they do it automatically with their parents. This means that your grandfather (whether he was aware or not) was still German, since German law says you only give it up if you "take action to immigrate" or something like that. Likewise every child since then (your mother and you) were born as US citizens "involuntarily" (as in you didn't choose) so you also retained your citizenship. 2. In 2021 Section 5 of the StAG law was updated to say that people born to German mothers between 1949-1975 are now eligible, it was updated since male only was seen as discriminatory. So theoretically say grandfather -> mother (born to male) -> you (post 1949). Not an expert so double check this. Im not an expert but my understanding of your case would be that you are not even needing to apply for status, you are literally German now, and just need to request a passport (check this with the resources on Reddit I mention below). I'd recommend checking Reddit "German Citizenship by Descent" resources. There's a couple profile names you will see there really frequently who are German citizens who can help you in finding paperwork from German government resources if needed (old birth certificates, etc.) for a small fee. You can also see public threads where people explain their case and you can see if you find one similar to yours. Example: https://www.reddit.com/r/Genealogy/comments/scvkwb/german_citizenship_by_descent_the_ultimate_guide/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Genealogy/comments/scvkwb/german_ci...
  - UncleOxidant 8mo ago
    Oh, wow. Thanks for that link. So it sounds like it could be possible.

analog31 8mo ago

One option is dual citizenship, which varies by country. I know about half a dozen people who are in various stages of applying.

WD-42 8mo ago

Maybe not North America and Europe, but with proof of income most countries most definitely will tell you sure, come on in!

toomuchtodo 8mo ago

If you are in Spain on a tourist visa, and apply for the equivalent of a digital nomad visa while in country, you get three years as a temporary resident. At three years, you re-apply for another two years, and after those five years you can apply for permanent residency. 80% of your income must come from outside of Spain. They’ll even take a letter from a US W2 employer as income verification. One example of an exit strategy you can move on almost immediately, depending on your circumstances. Resources: https://relocateme.substack.com/ https://relocateme.substack.com/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AmerExit/comments/urwlbr/a_guide_for_americans_that_want_to_get_out_of/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AmerExit/comments/urwlbr/a_guide_fo... https://old.reddit.com/user/Shufflebuzz/comments/1iv4dud/shufflebuzzs_guide_to_citizenship_by_descent/ https://old.reddit.com/user/Shufflebuzz/comments/1iv4dud/shu... https://www.helpmeleave.us/ https://www.helpmeleave.us/ https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/act-changes/rules-2025.html https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/se... (Canadian citizenship by descent) https://lookerstudio.google.com/reporting/b58914ce-b98d-4330-8460-a2e8d22d9061/page/TVrHF https://lookerstudio.google.com/reporting/b58914ce-b98d-4330... from https://pancakeonastick.substack.com/ https://pancakeonastick.substack.com/ (Digital Nomad Visa Map)

Bender 8mo ago

There are a few dozen countries that one can buy citizenship. Some require investing in something or starting their own business. Search for "countries that offer citizenship for money". Some places will pay for people to move their under certain conditions and lack of criminal history.

toomuchtodo 8mo ago
“Golden visa” and “citizenship by investment” are good search terms to use.

socalgal2 8mo ago

According to an LLM I asked, about 80 countries have a way in for $$$. I was superprized it was as high as 80, assuming I can beleive the answer. I knew though that the USA is one of them. Also Singapore, since it was big news when the co-founder of Facebook did it.

peterlk 8mo ago

I have quite a bit of family in Germany, and have had several friends move from the US to Europe. Europe absolutely knows that they have an opportunity to capture a ton of talent right now. If you have skills that are in demand, basically any country in the Schengen zone will find a way to get you a visa. For example, if you’re a trans researcher, you will find open arms at academic institutions in Europe. You could also lie and claim your address as a US address, and then just live in another country. This is obviously illegal, but I’ve met a few people who made it work for a while. But I’m also speaking abstractly on the internet, so maybe I’m just making all this up.

ytoawwhra92 8mo ago

> It's not like people can just decide to move to another country and they will say "sure, come on in!" Many countries actively try to attract skilled migrants with simple, points-based immigration systems and fast processing times. Simply having a bachelor's degree, 5+ years of work experience, and fluency in the local language will get you on the fast-track to a permanent working visa in many countries.

archagon 8mo ago
At least as far as tech migrants are concerned, the points floor for Canada and Australia has become quite high in recent years.

popularonion 8mo ago

Destination Thailand Visa is comically easy to get if you have ~$20K in savings

ProllyInfamous 8mo ago

Almost without exception, any US citizen can perform self-employed work in Netherlands via the DAFT program. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAFT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAFT> This can lead to eventual citizenship, but you have to follow the rules (e.g. monetary requirements, which are actually quite low).

TrueGeek 8mo ago
> monetary requirements, which are actually quite low Technically, yes - you are required to hold only €4,500 as an "investment" in the business you create. In reality you will need a lot more. My wife and I spent about €40k to move over which is inline with what others on the DAFT program have said they spent. Completely worth it though!
- archagon 8mo ago
  From my research, the biggest roadblock these days seems to be lack of housing.
- ProllyInfamous 8mo ago
  What was your final motivator to depart [mine: crony capitalism e.g. healthcare setup]? Were ya'll's companies already established, or created in the moving process? Citizens, yet [spekin de Dutch yet eh]? Lastly: is living in Maastricht similar to living in a US state panhandle (e.g. benefits of: border shopping; tax reasons). What drew ya'll south (V.e.g: Amsterdam)? Any suggestions/websites for a single electrician that's been thinking about DAFT for over a decade? My own would be YouTuber Not Just Bikes (expatriated to Utrecht for traffic engineering).
  - TrueGeek 8mo ago
    > What was your final motivator to depart Our main motivator was that we watched our grandparents grow older and just stop moving. I absolutely love America, but you do spend the majority of your time sitting. I'm not inactive, I do ultras, I hike, etc. But that doesn't make up for the fact that we're just always sitting - at home, at work, in the car. We wanted to live somewhere that would force us out of that. > Were ya'll's companies already established I had an LLC I used for contracting in the US, but the DAFT visa required setting up a new Dutch corporation. > Citizens, yet We're currently applying for our first visa renewal. Next time we'll be elligible for PR. Citizenship would require us to give up our US citizenship and I don't want to do that. > is living in Maastricht similar to living in a US state panhandle It kinda is. We don't have a car, but we do have neighbors that only grocery shop in Germany because it's cheaper. > What drew ya'll south (V.e.g: Amsterdam)? I just couldn't imagine living anywhere so flat and so far from forests / mountains. We still don't have proper forests in Maastricht, but I can be in the forests of Belgium or Germany in 20 minutes. > Any suggestions/websites for a single electrician that's been thinking about DAFT for over a decade? No websites, but just as someone who has tried to hire an electrician in both countries it seems like the shortage is greater here. It really seems like you could just come over and have a lot of work.

UncleOxidant 8mo ago

If you're a doctor or nurse Canada is definitely saying "sure, come on in!" - they're actively recruiting in the US for healthcare workers. But that's because like most other countries they've got a shortage of health care workers. They're not likely to tell us software engineers that we can com on in.

ageitgey 8mo ago

It's very hard to get a UK work visa normally (and getting a lot harder each year, like in the US), but if you are a HN type with a good tech, start-up, investor, or researcher career, they roll out the red carpet for you. https://www.gov.uk/global-talent https://www.gov.uk/global-talent If you qualify, you get a 'Tier 1' visa where you can work at any company without sponsorship, change jobs at any time just like a citizen, or start your own company with no fear of your visa being tied to a job. You can become a citizen yourself in 5 years. Source: Am now UK citizen Various other European countries have similar programs with different requirements. Netherlands, Portugal, and Spain are common places that a lot of US people go depending on what options they have to qualify and where they want to be. Spain has a digital nomad visa right now that is easy to get.

reaperducer 8mo ago

How? It's not like people can just decide to move to another country and they will say "sure, come on in!" right? If you read the article, you'd see that for some countries that is almost precisely what happens.

ranger_danger 8mo ago
The website blocks my ISP unfortunately, so I am not able to read it. Same thing when trying with a VPN as well. And the archive.ph link posted elsewhere in this thread is an endless captcha loop for me.