4 ms·

I calculated this back when I commuted daily. I was spending €700 a month on my car. Public transport would have been only €450 a month. Still went by car. Car

by retired 8mo ago

I calculated this back when I commuted daily. I was spending €700 a month on my car. Public transport would have been only €450 a month. Still went by car. Car was 35 minutes door to door in a climate controlled environment with a good seat and good stereo system. Public transport was two hours, multiple legs with various trains and busses, various payment systems, problems with missing connections, waiting outside in the cold, being packed with others. Gladly paid that €250 a month for 31 hours of my time and having a peaceful commute. Plus a weekend trip was typically around €30 for four people versus €150 for four people by public transport.

panick21_ 8mo ago
Are you taking into account depreciation of the car and interest? Are you taking into account the cost of your parking spot? Also, you example is just that. It will depend on many things. In places that are properly designed often the difference is nowhere near as large and the difference in money is bigger. Also, in places where there is lots of public transport, when you get a universal ticket, you can also use it for free for everything other then commuting. Its completely normal to do all your other activities by public transport as well. When I go out and I want to have a drink, a car is not an option (unless people are just pieces of garbage, witch the US system makes almost inevitable). > having a peaceful commute Except of course that all of US popular media is full of people who have horrible long commutes suffering from stress and road rage. Sitting in a train is more peaceful then driving by a lot. I can literally read a book and drink coffee or as I often do simply have a nap.
- retired 8mo ago
  That was including all associated cost for both forms of transport. This was in The Netherlands, which has one of the best public transport in the EU so I expect it to be worse elsewhere. If you already have a car, you typically do your other activities by car as well since you already paid for insurance and road tax and it is significantly cheaper to go by car as you only have gas, wear and depreciation to pay for. The universal ticket does not exist in The Netherlands. Train only is €399 a month for standing. Bus is typically €100 per month per region. My commutes by car were always peaceful. A lot more peaceful than standing in a train worrying if I would catch my bus connection because the train is behind schedule. That would add another 30 minutes to the trip. You could read a book standing but I would recommend against taking a nap or drinking coffee. I find taking public transport infinitely more stressful than taking a car. With a car you will always make it to your destination, often within reasonable time. With public transport you have no idea if you will make it. Sometimes you have to go home or find a hotel and try again the next day. I'm wondering now if you have ever experienced European public transport or if you have just read about it on the internet.
  - panick21_ 8mo ago
    > This was in The Netherlands, which has one of the best public transport in the EU so I expect it to be worse elsewhere. First of all, you are still talking about a single point to point example. In the Netherlands you have the happiest drivers exactly because the government invests so much money into public transport and bikes. That takes massive amount of cars of the road, making it more pleasant to drive for you. And thankfully data pretty clearly shows that people tend to take what is better for that situation mostly based on time. So the fact that so many people choice public transport (or bikes) is a clear indication that it works for some people. And that helps you as a driver. If everybody thought like you, it would be worse for everybody. If on a society we followed your logic and everybody would drive, then you would have the problem the US has, just 10x worse because in Europe, unlike in the US we don't have cities splatted over so much space with gigantic roads everywhere. Netherland is the perfect example that proves that large investment in public transit and biking pays of for everybody. I would argue cars are still subsidized to much. And Neiterlands while doing many things well still needs a huge amount of improvement, specifically outside the cities and Randstad.

by retired 8mo ago

panick21_ 8mo ago

Are you taking into account depreciation of the car and interest? Are you taking into account the cost of your parking spot? Also, you example is just that. It will depend on many things. In places that are properly designed often the difference is nowhere near as large and the difference in money is bigger. Also, in places where there is lots of public transport, when you get a universal ticket, you can also use it for free for everything other then commuting. Its completely normal to do all your other activities by public transport as well. When I go out and I want to have a drink, a car is not an option (unless people are just pieces of garbage, witch the US system makes almost inevitable). > having a peaceful commute Except of course that all of US popular media is full of people who have horrible long commutes suffering from stress and road rage. Sitting in a train is more peaceful then driving by a lot. I can literally read a book and drink coffee or as I often do simply have a nap.

retired 8mo ago
That was including all associated cost for both forms of transport. This was in The Netherlands, which has one of the best public transport in the EU so I expect it to be worse elsewhere. If you already have a car, you typically do your other activities by car as well since you already paid for insurance and road tax and it is significantly cheaper to go by car as you only have gas, wear and depreciation to pay for. The universal ticket does not exist in The Netherlands. Train only is €399 a month for standing. Bus is typically €100 per month per region. My commutes by car were always peaceful. A lot more peaceful than standing in a train worrying if I would catch my bus connection because the train is behind schedule. That would add another 30 minutes to the trip. You could read a book standing but I would recommend against taking a nap or drinking coffee. I find taking public transport infinitely more stressful than taking a car. With a car you will always make it to your destination, often within reasonable time. With public transport you have no idea if you will make it. Sometimes you have to go home or find a hotel and try again the next day. I'm wondering now if you have ever experienced European public transport or if you have just read about it on the internet.
- panick21_ 8mo ago
  > This was in The Netherlands, which has one of the best public transport in the EU so I expect it to be worse elsewhere. First of all, you are still talking about a single point to point example. In the Netherlands you have the happiest drivers exactly because the government invests so much money into public transport and bikes. That takes massive amount of cars of the road, making it more pleasant to drive for you. And thankfully data pretty clearly shows that people tend to take what is better for that situation mostly based on time. So the fact that so many people choice public transport (or bikes) is a clear indication that it works for some people. And that helps you as a driver. If everybody thought like you, it would be worse for everybody. If on a society we followed your logic and everybody would drive, then you would have the problem the US has, just 10x worse because in Europe, unlike in the US we don't have cities splatted over so much space with gigantic roads everywhere. Netherland is the perfect example that proves that large investment in public transit and biking pays of for everybody. I would argue cars are still subsidized to much. And Neiterlands while doing many things well still needs a huge amount of improvement, specifically outside the cities and Randstad.