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> That is not possible and it is extremely suppressive to express yourself. Also for the fact that you cannot predict how future powers will view past comments

> That is not possible and it is extremely suppressive to express yourself. Also for the fact that you cannot predict how future powers will view past comments - for instance, certain benign political views 20 years ago could become "terroristic speech" tomorrow. I operate by a simple, general rule - I don't often say anything online I wouldn't say directly to someone's face in real life.

NetOpWibby 8mo ago
> I operate by a simple, general rule - I don't often say anything online I wouldn't say directly to someone's face in real life. More people should keep this same energy. I try to stress this to my kids and it feels like it's falling on deaf ears in regards to my teen. Alas.
- JohnMakin 8mo ago
  I can be a rude prick online sometimes, but I can be in real life too - basically though the reason I do this is I never want it to be some huge surprise IRL if someone sees what I write online and be like, "wow, I didn't know that about him." I'm pretty much what I am online and IRL the same. For some reason this seems to matter for me, at least in the past when people have tried to like, send employers stuff I may have written online. The reaction is like "oh, yea, we knew that already about him." Nothing terrible, maybe slightly embarrassing, but you know how online spaces can be. just be yourself basically, at least I try to be.
  - albumen 8mo ago
    Your framing is interesting. You may feel that you can’t change who you are in real life, but people have a choice on how they behave online (or choose not to engage at all). So you could choose to be nice (or at least not a jerk); I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t get people writing to your employer complaining. I’d argue that if you know you’re sometimes a jerk, it’d be less stressful for you and others if you didn’t bring that energy online.
    - JohnMakin 8mo ago
      Sure, there is a choice. it’s rarely/never been stressful for me though, and I value being who I am for my own reasons as a strength and not a weakness. I always try to play by the moderation rules as I can possibly and realistically do. some of what I’ve written online has gotten me opportunities it wouldn’t have if i’d been more hesitant. My point is if you have a good track record what you maintain online vs irl doesn’t matter as much to people as you’d maybe think as long as you are being true to yourself. I’m an elder millennial though, so that’s always been the case online for me and i dont think i often get out of pocket online anyway. maybe that won’t be the case in the future. I could write a lot more than I’d care to publicly about personal and implied threats I’ve received based on my writings, but caving to that to me would betray my own values and I choose to consume the web how i choose knowing possible consequences - plus the fact moderation standards and what is “rude” drastically differs amongst platforms.
  - qsera 8mo ago
    As someone who gets dopamine hits from downvotes on HN, I approve of your behavior! >just be yourself basically Yea, it is boring when everyone is the same. I would like a rude but interesting world (even if I might not survive long in one), than a nice, boring one.
    - the_af 8mo ago
      "Just be yourself" seems to me a lot like the rightfully discredited "if you don't have anything to hide...". Everybody has something to hide. Everybody has said things they regret, or meant to be heard by some people but not others.
  - Imustaskforhelp 8mo ago
    This really hits a string with me, adding on to this, This is how I believe the same way but I would argue that I might be more nicer online than offline because I am better able to control any emotions imo when I give more thought to it. Because I don't really appreciate flame wars and when that's the case, I like to take some time to find common ground and just have a respectable discussion when possible. This approach is harder to work irl because those moments are also spontaneous & it does require significantly more discipline to control one's emotion within seconds rather than minutes, but its something that I think I can work upon as well. But I would say that aside from that, most of my comments are pretty spontaneously written. I frame it as a question of being honest with myself at times, I think I am mostly pretty much the same IRL and online as well. Another point but such forums also act like a journal to me for my future to read as well. I try to write comments in such sense that in future, I can read them and try to accurately remember what my mind was thinking during the time/days I wrote that comment for self-retrospection as well. Edit: Although now that I think about it, there are definitely some subtle changes I might have online vs irl but I would still say that I feel like my accounts are pretty authentic fwiw (personally) but I am happy with my authenticity online but there's definitely a level of my thinking which worries about any comment being permanently available though.
actionfromafar 8mo ago
Interesting. You could probably get into trouble in those two places for extremely different things you said.
- JohnMakin 8mo ago
  of course, and it has happened, but I think authenticity is usually appreciated
- NooneAtAll3 8mo ago
  what two places?
WorldPeas 8mo ago
I think the problem with this, especially amongst younger people, is having spent so much time online, they don't know where to draw this line anymore.
danilocesar 8mo ago
This is very import: you don't know how the cancelation culture will be in 20 years. I like to use the example of a guy who did a blackface in a party back in 2000's. Although reprehensible, was not commom-sense racism back then. Today society sees it as completely unacceptable. Eventually that guy became prime minister of Canada and things went pretty bad when that photo surfaced decades later. Is it far to judge someone's actions by the lens of a different culture? When the popular opinion comes, they won't care about historical context.
- brabel 8mo ago
  Only idiots don’t care about it historical context.
  - lan321 8mo ago
    Your bar is too high in my experience. Most don't care about it and most of the ones that do, care only when it confirms their beliefs.
  - fragmede 8mo ago
    Unfortunately they get just as many votes as everyone else.
  - DrewADesign 8mo ago
    That’s false if you consider an idiot to be a person that can’t understand why it’s important. In this context, we can see companies selling the exact service we’re talking about to hr departments. Every bit of data they can get from social media sites to data brokers of all stripes or whatever else and assigns generic employability scores. I’ll bet most of the people in those companies have considered this problem more than nearly anyone else — because they need to figure out how to get people to buy it anyway, and try to spackle over the parts that give people pause. The reason they don’t care is because it’s what’s in between them and money. There are intelligent criminals out there. They aren’t idiots, they’re just assholes.
- cucumber3732842 8mo ago
  I think people forget that before about the 2010s plus or minus depending on who and where those sorts of overt bigotry were considered a "solved" problem, things were looking up and you and your buddies dressing up as Klansmen for Halloween was mocking the Klansmen more than anything else.
samastur 8mo ago
Depends on what you want to say. It can be safer to say something directly to someone's face than online because it is transient and generally does not involve random passers-by. I am not going to give examples, because I don't want them to be pinned on me as my views, but I'm sure most of us have enough imagination to come up with them.
the_af 8mo ago
> I operate by a simple, general rule - I don't often say anything online I wouldn't say directly to someone's face in real life. I think this isn't enough for the digital age, simply because "comments you'd say to someone's face" can compromise you on the internet. Some dirty joke, gossip or whatever you tell a friend, if posted online, could come back to bite you in the ass in the dystopian future, lose you your job, or worse.

NetOpWibby 8mo ago

> I operate by a simple, general rule - I don't often say anything online I wouldn't say directly to someone's face in real life. More people should keep this same energy. I try to stress this to my kids and it feels like it's falling on deaf ears in regards to my teen. Alas.

JohnMakin 8mo ago
I can be a rude prick online sometimes, but I can be in real life too - basically though the reason I do this is I never want it to be some huge surprise IRL if someone sees what I write online and be like, "wow, I didn't know that about him." I'm pretty much what I am online and IRL the same. For some reason this seems to matter for me, at least in the past when people have tried to like, send employers stuff I may have written online. The reaction is like "oh, yea, we knew that already about him." Nothing terrible, maybe slightly embarrassing, but you know how online spaces can be. just be yourself basically, at least I try to be.
- albumen 8mo ago
  Your framing is interesting. You may feel that you can’t change who you are in real life, but people have a choice on how they behave online (or choose not to engage at all). So you could choose to be nice (or at least not a jerk); I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t get people writing to your employer complaining. I’d argue that if you know you’re sometimes a jerk, it’d be less stressful for you and others if you didn’t bring that energy online.
  - JohnMakin 8mo ago
    Sure, there is a choice. it’s rarely/never been stressful for me though, and I value being who I am for my own reasons as a strength and not a weakness. I always try to play by the moderation rules as I can possibly and realistically do. some of what I’ve written online has gotten me opportunities it wouldn’t have if i’d been more hesitant. My point is if you have a good track record what you maintain online vs irl doesn’t matter as much to people as you’d maybe think as long as you are being true to yourself. I’m an elder millennial though, so that’s always been the case online for me and i dont think i often get out of pocket online anyway. maybe that won’t be the case in the future. I could write a lot more than I’d care to publicly about personal and implied threats I’ve received based on my writings, but caving to that to me would betray my own values and I choose to consume the web how i choose knowing possible consequences - plus the fact moderation standards and what is “rude” drastically differs amongst platforms.
- qsera 8mo ago
  As someone who gets dopamine hits from downvotes on HN, I approve of your behavior! >just be yourself basically Yea, it is boring when everyone is the same. I would like a rude but interesting world (even if I might not survive long in one), than a nice, boring one.
  - the_af 8mo ago
    "Just be yourself" seems to me a lot like the rightfully discredited "if you don't have anything to hide...". Everybody has something to hide. Everybody has said things they regret, or meant to be heard by some people but not others.
- Imustaskforhelp 8mo ago
  This really hits a string with me, adding on to this, This is how I believe the same way but I would argue that I might be more nicer online than offline because I am better able to control any emotions imo when I give more thought to it. Because I don't really appreciate flame wars and when that's the case, I like to take some time to find common ground and just have a respectable discussion when possible. This approach is harder to work irl because those moments are also spontaneous & it does require significantly more discipline to control one's emotion within seconds rather than minutes, but its something that I think I can work upon as well. But I would say that aside from that, most of my comments are pretty spontaneously written. I frame it as a question of being honest with myself at times, I think I am mostly pretty much the same IRL and online as well. Another point but such forums also act like a journal to me for my future to read as well. I try to write comments in such sense that in future, I can read them and try to accurately remember what my mind was thinking during the time/days I wrote that comment for self-retrospection as well. Edit: Although now that I think about it, there are definitely some subtle changes I might have online vs irl but I would still say that I feel like my accounts are pretty authentic fwiw (personally) but I am happy with my authenticity online but there's definitely a level of my thinking which worries about any comment being permanently available though.

actionfromafar 8mo ago

Interesting. You could probably get into trouble in those two places for extremely different things you said.

JohnMakin 8mo ago
of course, and it has happened, but I think authenticity is usually appreciated
NooneAtAll3 8mo ago
what two places?

WorldPeas 8mo ago

I think the problem with this, especially amongst younger people, is having spent so much time online, they don't know where to draw this line anymore.

danilocesar 8mo ago

This is very import: you don't know how the cancelation culture will be in 20 years. I like to use the example of a guy who did a blackface in a party back in 2000's. Although reprehensible, was not commom-sense racism back then. Today society sees it as completely unacceptable. Eventually that guy became prime minister of Canada and things went pretty bad when that photo surfaced decades later. Is it far to judge someone's actions by the lens of a different culture? When the popular opinion comes, they won't care about historical context.

brabel 8mo ago
Only idiots don’t care about it historical context.
- lan321 8mo ago
  Your bar is too high in my experience. Most don't care about it and most of the ones that do, care only when it confirms their beliefs.
- fragmede 8mo ago
  Unfortunately they get just as many votes as everyone else.
- DrewADesign 8mo ago
  That’s false if you consider an idiot to be a person that can’t understand why it’s important. In this context, we can see companies selling the exact service we’re talking about to hr departments. Every bit of data they can get from social media sites to data brokers of all stripes or whatever else and assigns generic employability scores. I’ll bet most of the people in those companies have considered this problem more than nearly anyone else — because they need to figure out how to get people to buy it anyway, and try to spackle over the parts that give people pause. The reason they don’t care is because it’s what’s in between them and money. There are intelligent criminals out there. They aren’t idiots, they’re just assholes.
cucumber3732842 8mo ago
I think people forget that before about the 2010s plus or minus depending on who and where those sorts of overt bigotry were considered a "solved" problem, things were looking up and you and your buddies dressing up as Klansmen for Halloween was mocking the Klansmen more than anything else.

samastur 8mo ago

Depends on what you want to say. It can be safer to say something directly to someone's face than online because it is transient and generally does not involve random passers-by. I am not going to give examples, because I don't want them to be pinned on me as my views, but I'm sure most of us have enough imagination to come up with them.

the_af 8mo ago

> I operate by a simple, general rule - I don't often say anything online I wouldn't say directly to someone's face in real life. I think this isn't enough for the digital age, simply because "comments you'd say to someone's face" can compromise you on the internet. Some dirty joke, gossip or whatever you tell a friend, if posted online, could come back to bite you in the ass in the dystopian future, lose you your job, or worse.