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> Scott Forstall will be leaving Apple next year > Jony Ive will provide leadership and direction for Human Interface (HI) across the company And thus ended t

by apike 14y ago

> Scott Forstall will be leaving Apple next year > Jony Ive will provide leadership and direction for Human Interface (HI) across the company And thus ended the reign of skeuomorphism at Apple. Or, at least, the reign of hyper-realism and hyper-whimsy in UI design. Jobs or Forstall always seemed to favour it, but could you imagine Jony Ive signing off on a Podcasts app where half the screen is a reel-to-reel tape that bounces when you pause?

zach 14y ago
That's what's so weird, though — that particular reel-to-reel design actually seems like a deliberate combination of both influences. The skeuomorphic look of Podcasts was based on a physical product design by Ive's legendary design influence, Dieter Rams: http://www.cultofmac.com/176008/heres-the-braun-tape-recorder-that-inspired-apples-podcasts-app-gallery/ http://www.cultofmac.com/176008/heres-the-braun-tape-recorde... In retrospect, the tension inherent in this odd compromise seems palpable. It's like listening to the last album a band releases before they break up.
- jarek 14y ago
  Skeuomorphing physical objects designed by Rams is still skeuomorphing.
  - fleitz 14y ago
    Skeuomorphic design is rarely as little design as possible which is what makes the podcast design so iconic... er.. ironic.
    - 89a 14y ago
      Same goes for this stupid piece of shit http://www.wthr.co http://www.wthr.co
      - jarek 14y ago
        I was so confused when I saw that app a couple of months back. Why spend so much effort creating an admittedly aesthetically pleasing design, name check Rams and his principles, and so completely miss the point of "as little design as possible" and have a non-functional spinner display for the current conditions? And having such a prominent °F/°C switch is just baffling. This is not a function used regularly by the vast majority of users.
        CamperBob2 14y ago
        (Shrug) I don't know anything about this app but I don't immediately get the hate for it. It looks cool. The spinner dial may not be functional, but it could be and should be, because weather conditions change incrementally and (more or less) predictably. If it's humid and cloudy and the barometric pressure is falling, then it would make sense for the spinner dial to move slowly between "cloudy" and "raining" positions, for instance. And maybe the author of the app is an advocate of the metric system and wants to encourage users to treat the °F/°C switch as a prominent educational feature. Like I said, I don't know anything about it, but the amount of negativity being aimed at the app seems difficult to justify.
        jarek 14y ago
        I'm not sure if that part of the comment was aimed at me: I don't hate it, I just think it fails at reaching or perhaps even understanding its stated design goals.
        CamperBob2 14y ago
        Mostly referring to 89a's criticism ("Same goes for this stupid piece of shit.") I usually reserve language like that for politicians, Sony products, and iTunes, not cheesy weather apps.
- tisme 14y ago
  Man what luck for Apple that Braun didn't take out a design patent on this.
  - arrrg 14y ago
    It wouldn’t matter. Design Patents are valid for fourteen years. Every single product Dieter Rams designed for Braun is decades older than that. Don’t fight patents with cheap lies. There are plenty of reasons why patents are bad, bad, bad, no need to resort to untruths.
    - tisme 14y ago
      What cheap lies? I'm well aware of how old that design is. If copying is wrong it is wrong regardless of how long ago the original was made. Or is there some magical cut-off date by which copying suddenly is ok? Why 14 years? Why not 13 or 10 or 50? It strikes me as pretty arbitrary. For a company to go all out in accusing others of copying I think they should be above all that and come up with entirely original designs. Why take a 30 year old tape recorder and mimic that, is that really the mark of originality that Apple stands for? It seems quite hypocritical to me.
      - arrrg 14y ago
        It’s most certainly not hypocritical to believe that there should be time limited monopolies on designs and copying designs for which that monopoly has run out. Simple as that. Don’t argue over ridiculous stuff like that. There is no need for these cheap polemics.
      - pooriaazimi 14y ago
        Reasons: 1. That Braun thing was produced decades ago, and probably they haven't sold a single one of them in the last decade or so. 2. A podcasts app on an iPad, is in no way competing to an ancient cassette player. 3. They're in different categories. It's like if I "copy" a Mercedes logo for a window. Though I'm not particularly in favor of Apple/Samsung case ruling, it's clearly different to copy an element for a competing product (a tablet) or another product that's a whole different beast and is no longer for sale.
mtgx 14y ago
Doubt we'll be seeing any major change like that at least until iOS8. For iOS7 it seems too soon. We might also see it in Mac OS XI, but I also doubt that's coming until 2014.
- wisty 14y ago
  The good thing about superficial skeuomorphism is, it's really easy to take out.
- taligent 14y ago
  I think it's pretty clear where the direction of Apple is going: http://www.apple.com/itunes/new-itunes/ http://www.apple.com/itunes/new-itunes/ So it could be coming sooner than you think.
  - manmal 14y ago
    iTunes 11 is obviously not free of skeuo. There is at least the brushed metal volume knob and the pseudo-LCD display. I don't see how the new iTunes went away from the old iTunes, skeuo-wise, apart from the less-but-still-skeuo-looking LCD display.
cliftonk 14y ago
This was also my first thought on the departure. The announcement did look ambiguous on whether Ive would be the final sign-off for software UI. I certainly hope he is, for the reasons you mentioned.
ececconi 14y ago
I can't wait to see how much cleaner future versions of iOS will be.
- brudgers 14y ago
  If they aren't staying skeuomorphic, then Metro might give you a preview.
  - ececconi 14y ago
    Do you really think that they would radically redesign the next version of iOS?
    - brudgers 14y ago
      Next version, probably not unless there is the perception of a burning platform. But over the long haul, I don't see how Apple can stick with an increasingly dated and arbitrary visual paradigm. How many people have actually been around real to real tape decks or owned a leather desk calendar? And as digital devices like smartphones become more ubiquitous, fewer and fewer people will.
    - josho 14y ago
      > Do you really think that they would radically redesign the next version of iOS? Yes. Absolutely. After a year of the longer 4" screen I fully expect Apple to significantly revise the UI to take advantage of this extra room. Don't expect a radical change that throws out everything Apple has already achieved, but do expect new widgets that make 4" screens better.
      - Bud 14y ago
        We've already seen lots of small changes to take advantage of the extra screen height. Virtually all the iOS built-in apps and many third-party apps have made tweaks. Not just stretching the size of the main area in which you view data or other stuff, but actual interface changes as well.
    - deleted 14y ago
brudgers 14y ago
Could the simultaneity of the purge of skeuomorphists with the release of Windows Phone 8 (and Windows 8 +1 day) be purely coincidental?
justincormack 14y ago
Jobs loved it. He wanted us to add page turning to our app. Bizarre.
chj 14y ago
That Podcasts app is really really a piece of "work". whoever designed it should be fired.
- WildUtah 14y ago
  +1 Even worse than maps, which are a huge ongoing problem.
  - guiambros 14y ago
    +1. The app should have never been created in the first place. The old podcast functionality was basic, but was better than having to switch back-and-forth between two different apps as it is now.
- Einherji 14y ago
  I actually like a lot of apple's skeuomorphism. I think it makes digital interfaces more natural. I think at least some of the iPhones success can be attributed to the fact that less savvy people find the skeuomorphisms easy to relate to everyday things and helps bridge the gap between, for example, using a real reel-to-reel vs. using a digital representation thereof. Although I agree that the podcast app is too much, I would really miss the leather textures and whatnot of other iOS apps.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
    There are some interesting ways iOS uses fabric patterns, it's quite clever. But I don't think that making things look like their old-school equivalents really helps people, rather hinders.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
jkn 14y ago
Excellent news. I have always been surprised by the opposing philosophies guiding hardware vs software design in Apple products. They consistently offer beautiful hardware designs that emphasize simplicity, sometimes at a cost in usability (e.g. the sharp edges of the newer iPhones are less ergonomic than the first models). On the other hand, their software makes few compromises in usability, which is a good thing. But it never showed this taste for simplicity and purity that makes Apple devices so appealing from the outside. From the brushed metal windows and shiny plastic scroll-bars of early OS X, to the leather borders in iOS applications, Apple under Jobs and Forstall has pursued the opposite direction. Stock Android actually has the edge here (although inconsistently), something I would not say about the hardware or usability. Hopefully this change means we will see Apple software that preserves usability without the tacky visuals.

by apike 14y ago

zach 14y ago

That's what's so weird, though — that particular reel-to-reel design actually seems like a deliberate combination of both influences. The skeuomorphic look of Podcasts was based on a physical product design by Ive's legendary design influence, Dieter Rams: http://www.cultofmac.com/176008/heres-the-braun-tape-recorder-that-inspired-apples-podcasts-app-gallery/ http://www.cultofmac.com/176008/heres-the-braun-tape-recorde... In retrospect, the tension inherent in this odd compromise seems palpable. It's like listening to the last album a band releases before they break up.

jarek 14y ago
Skeuomorphing physical objects designed by Rams is still skeuomorphing.
- fleitz 14y ago
  Skeuomorphic design is rarely as little design as possible which is what makes the podcast design so iconic... er.. ironic.
  - 89a 14y ago
    Same goes for this stupid piece of shit http://www.wthr.co http://www.wthr.co
    - jarek 14y ago
      I was so confused when I saw that app a couple of months back. Why spend so much effort creating an admittedly aesthetically pleasing design, name check Rams and his principles, and so completely miss the point of "as little design as possible" and have a non-functional spinner display for the current conditions? And having such a prominent °F/°C switch is just baffling. This is not a function used regularly by the vast majority of users.
      - CamperBob2 14y ago
        (Shrug) I don't know anything about this app but I don't immediately get the hate for it. It looks cool. The spinner dial may not be functional, but it could be and should be, because weather conditions change incrementally and (more or less) predictably. If it's humid and cloudy and the barometric pressure is falling, then it would make sense for the spinner dial to move slowly between "cloudy" and "raining" positions, for instance. And maybe the author of the app is an advocate of the metric system and wants to encourage users to treat the °F/°C switch as a prominent educational feature. Like I said, I don't know anything about it, but the amount of negativity being aimed at the app seems difficult to justify.
        jarek 14y ago
        I'm not sure if that part of the comment was aimed at me: I don't hate it, I just think it fails at reaching or perhaps even understanding its stated design goals.
        CamperBob2 14y ago
        Mostly referring to 89a's criticism ("Same goes for this stupid piece of shit.") I usually reserve language like that for politicians, Sony products, and iTunes, not cheesy weather apps.
tisme 14y ago
Man what luck for Apple that Braun didn't take out a design patent on this.
- arrrg 14y ago
  It wouldn’t matter. Design Patents are valid for fourteen years. Every single product Dieter Rams designed for Braun is decades older than that. Don’t fight patents with cheap lies. There are plenty of reasons why patents are bad, bad, bad, no need to resort to untruths.
  - tisme 14y ago
    What cheap lies? I'm well aware of how old that design is. If copying is wrong it is wrong regardless of how long ago the original was made. Or is there some magical cut-off date by which copying suddenly is ok? Why 14 years? Why not 13 or 10 or 50? It strikes me as pretty arbitrary. For a company to go all out in accusing others of copying I think they should be above all that and come up with entirely original designs. Why take a 30 year old tape recorder and mimic that, is that really the mark of originality that Apple stands for? It seems quite hypocritical to me.
    - arrrg 14y ago
      It’s most certainly not hypocritical to believe that there should be time limited monopolies on designs and copying designs for which that monopoly has run out. Simple as that. Don’t argue over ridiculous stuff like that. There is no need for these cheap polemics.
    - pooriaazimi 14y ago
      Reasons: 1. That Braun thing was produced decades ago, and probably they haven't sold a single one of them in the last decade or so. 2. A podcasts app on an iPad, is in no way competing to an ancient cassette player. 3. They're in different categories. It's like if I "copy" a Mercedes logo for a window. Though I'm not particularly in favor of Apple/Samsung case ruling, it's clearly different to copy an element for a competing product (a tablet) or another product that's a whole different beast and is no longer for sale.

mtgx 14y ago

Doubt we'll be seeing any major change like that at least until iOS8. For iOS7 it seems too soon. We might also see it in Mac OS XI, but I also doubt that's coming until 2014.

wisty 14y ago
The good thing about superficial skeuomorphism is, it's really easy to take out.
taligent 14y ago
I think it's pretty clear where the direction of Apple is going: http://www.apple.com/itunes/new-itunes/ http://www.apple.com/itunes/new-itunes/ So it could be coming sooner than you think.
- manmal 14y ago
  iTunes 11 is obviously not free of skeuo. There is at least the brushed metal volume knob and the pseudo-LCD display. I don't see how the new iTunes went away from the old iTunes, skeuo-wise, apart from the less-but-still-skeuo-looking LCD display.

cliftonk 14y ago

This was also my first thought on the departure. The announcement did look ambiguous on whether Ive would be the final sign-off for software UI. I certainly hope he is, for the reasons you mentioned.

ececconi 14y ago

I can't wait to see how much cleaner future versions of iOS will be.

brudgers 14y ago
If they aren't staying skeuomorphic, then Metro might give you a preview.
- ececconi 14y ago
  Do you really think that they would radically redesign the next version of iOS?
  - brudgers 14y ago
    Next version, probably not unless there is the perception of a burning platform. But over the long haul, I don't see how Apple can stick with an increasingly dated and arbitrary visual paradigm. How many people have actually been around real to real tape decks or owned a leather desk calendar? And as digital devices like smartphones become more ubiquitous, fewer and fewer people will.
  - josho 14y ago
    > Do you really think that they would radically redesign the next version of iOS? Yes. Absolutely. After a year of the longer 4" screen I fully expect Apple to significantly revise the UI to take advantage of this extra room. Don't expect a radical change that throws out everything Apple has already achieved, but do expect new widgets that make 4" screens better.
    - Bud 14y ago
      We've already seen lots of small changes to take advantage of the extra screen height. Virtually all the iOS built-in apps and many third-party apps have made tweaks. Not just stretching the size of the main area in which you view data or other stuff, but actual interface changes as well.
  - deleted 14y ago

brudgers 14y ago

Could the simultaneity of the purge of skeuomorphists with the release of Windows Phone 8 (and Windows 8 +1 day) be purely coincidental?

justincormack 14y ago

Jobs loved it. He wanted us to add page turning to our app. Bizarre.

chj 14y ago

That Podcasts app is really really a piece of "work". whoever designed it should be fired.

WildUtah 14y ago
+1 Even worse than maps, which are a huge ongoing problem.
- guiambros 14y ago
  +1. The app should have never been created in the first place. The old podcast functionality was basic, but was better than having to switch back-and-forth between two different apps as it is now.
Einherji 14y ago
I actually like a lot of apple's skeuomorphism. I think it makes digital interfaces more natural. I think at least some of the iPhones success can be attributed to the fact that less savvy people find the skeuomorphisms easy to relate to everyday things and helps bridge the gap between, for example, using a real reel-to-reel vs. using a digital representation thereof. Although I agree that the podcast app is too much, I would really miss the leather textures and whatnot of other iOS apps.
- TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
  There are some interesting ways iOS uses fabric patterns, it's quite clever. But I don't think that making things look like their old-school equivalents really helps people, rather hinders.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

jkn 14y ago

Excellent news. I have always been surprised by the opposing philosophies guiding hardware vs software design in Apple products. They consistently offer beautiful hardware designs that emphasize simplicity, sometimes at a cost in usability (e.g. the sharp edges of the newer iPhones are less ergonomic than the first models). On the other hand, their software makes few compromises in usability, which is a good thing. But it never showed this taste for simplicity and purity that makes Apple devices so appealing from the outside. From the brushed metal windows and shiny plastic scroll-bars of early OS X, to the leather borders in iOS applications, Apple under Jobs and Forstall has pursued the opposite direction. Stock Android actually has the edge here (although inconsistently), something I would not say about the hardware or usability. Hopefully this change means we will see Apple software that preserves usability without the tacky visuals.