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Next is the worst framework I’ve ever used next to rails. It’s pure overhead for most apps.

by qudat 7mo ago

lateforwork 7mo ago
Try mvc-router, see here: https://github.com/wisercoder/mvc-router/tree/master/DemoApp/Client https://github.com/wisercoder/mvc-router/tree/master/DemoApp... React was originally meant to be the 'V' in MVC. You can still use it that way and React becomes very simple when you only use it for UI. Why do data fetching in a React component?
- qudat 7mo ago
  I built something similar actually: https://starfx.bower.sh https://starfx.bower.sh
JustSkyfall 7mo ago
Rails 8 is surprisingly good nowadays. It absolutely still has its share of problems (e.g. Bundler being slow, the frontend story being crappy without Inertia, lack of types which is a biggie, memory) but it is still a fantastic framework imo.
- dmix 7mo ago
  Why Inertia.js? I quite enjoy not using JS heavy frontends in Rails by leaning on Turbo and light Stimulus JS controllers where needed. My experience going hard into Vue+Rails was full of pain and I've rediscovered why server first makes everything easier to reason about instead of duplicating tons of logic + dealing with constant async issues (particularly around automated testing and complex data loading).
  - moviedo 7mo ago
    Inertia because it’s a plug-in replacement for ruby html templating aka erb. Try it out, it’s basically the same stuff you get from erb, without the need for Turbo’s web sockets. You get server side rendering, all the great BE stuff like server side validation, but no SPA headache. I find the best DX with Adonis/nodejs and typescript.
- igravious 7mo ago
  Somebody should port uv to Ruby :/
  - cheshire_cat 7mo ago
    It's called rv: https://github.com/spinel-coop/rv https://github.com/spinel-coop/rv
christophilus 7mo ago
It’s unbelievably terrible. I don’t understand its success at all, as much as I’ve tried.
vlucas 7mo ago
The basic premise of Next is good, but it definitely has more overhead that in should, has odd "middleware", and is very hard to optimize. I view this mostly as a React problem though since any page requires full hydration and ships everything to the client. RSCs are... not my favorite for sure. I too have been very frustrated by this, and I made an "Astro for dynamic sites" TypeScript framework called Hyperspan ( https://www.hyperspan.dev https://www.hyperspan.dev ) that aims to fill the gap in the JS ecosystem for a modern fully dynamic option that, similar to Astro, makes dynamic islands easy. I have enjoyed using it in all my own projects. Check it out if you want.
- switz 7mo ago
  RSC by design does not ship everything to the client. That's one of its basic premises. It ships markup, composed in client interactivity, but you can shed a lot of the code required curate that markup.
  - vlucas 7mo ago
    I obviously meant traditional React components, not RSC. RSC can eliminate some client code, but they can be very awkward to use in practice, and lines between server and client get blurry really fast. The mental model is difficult for many to fully grok. I say this as someone who has lead engineering teams with folks of varying skill levels. RSCs are not worth the extra complexity and mental overhead they bring.
neya 7mo ago
If Rails is considered a worse framework, then I'm pretty much speechless. Not everything has to be about performance. Security is a thing too.
- DoesntMatter22 7mo ago
  Rails powers nearly 15 percent of the US e-commerce. I love it. Any time I have to use another framework it feels like a huge downgrade. Rails has so many things that make it nice to use
  - neya 7mo ago
    Agreed 100%. I shifted to Phoenix/Elixir years ago but I still love Rails for all the sensible defaults it provides.
    - culopatin 7mo ago
      How is the elixir job market these days?
      - neya 7mo ago
        You can find specialized roles than Rails and usually more experienced (understandably) but most companies would be really open if you told them you have a Rails background but want to learn Elixir. The pool size is less, but the pay is more (depending on your demographics, experience, etc) in my personal experience. But, honestly I chose it not for the market, it's just a better programming language to build stuff, period.
    - DoesntMatter22 7mo ago
      Elixir is nice but the console feels like the Stone Age by comparison. That drives me a little crazy
      - neya 7mo ago
        I have the opposite opinion - give me stone age over the colored christmas lights anyday :)

Next is the worst framework I’ve ever used next to rails. It’s pure overhead for most apps.

by qudat 7mo ago

Next is the worst framework I’ve ever used next to rails. It’s pure overhead for most apps.

Try mvc-router, see here: https://github.com/wisercoder/mvc-router/tree/master/DemoApp/Client https://github.com/wisercoder/mvc-router/tree/master/DemoApp... React was originally meant to be the 'V' in MVC. You can still use it that way and React becomes very simple when you only use it for UI. Why do data fetching in a React component?

qudat 7mo ago
I built something similar actually: https://starfx.bower.sh https://starfx.bower.sh

JustSkyfall 7mo ago

Rails 8 is surprisingly good nowadays. It absolutely still has its share of problems (e.g. Bundler being slow, the frontend story being crappy without Inertia, lack of types which is a biggie, memory) but it is still a fantastic framework imo.

dmix 7mo ago
Why Inertia.js? I quite enjoy not using JS heavy frontends in Rails by leaning on Turbo and light Stimulus JS controllers where needed. My experience going hard into Vue+Rails was full of pain and I've rediscovered why server first makes everything easier to reason about instead of duplicating tons of logic + dealing with constant async issues (particularly around automated testing and complex data loading).
- moviedo 7mo ago
  Inertia because it’s a plug-in replacement for ruby html templating aka erb. Try it out, it’s basically the same stuff you get from erb, without the need for Turbo’s web sockets. You get server side rendering, all the great BE stuff like server side validation, but no SPA headache. I find the best DX with Adonis/nodejs and typescript.
igravious 7mo ago
Somebody should port uv to Ruby :/
- cheshire_cat 7mo ago
  It's called rv: https://github.com/spinel-coop/rv https://github.com/spinel-coop/rv

christophilus 7mo ago

It’s unbelievably terrible. I don’t understand its success at all, as much as I’ve tried.

vlucas 7mo ago

The basic premise of Next is good, but it definitely has more overhead that in should, has odd "middleware", and is very hard to optimize. I view this mostly as a React problem though since any page requires full hydration and ships everything to the client. RSCs are... not my favorite for sure. I too have been very frustrated by this, and I made an "Astro for dynamic sites" TypeScript framework called Hyperspan ( https://www.hyperspan.dev https://www.hyperspan.dev ) that aims to fill the gap in the JS ecosystem for a modern fully dynamic option that, similar to Astro, makes dynamic islands easy. I have enjoyed using it in all my own projects. Check it out if you want.

switz 7mo ago
RSC by design does not ship everything to the client. That's one of its basic premises. It ships markup, composed in client interactivity, but you can shed a lot of the code required curate that markup.
- vlucas 7mo ago
  I obviously meant traditional React components, not RSC. RSC can eliminate some client code, but they can be very awkward to use in practice, and lines between server and client get blurry really fast. The mental model is difficult for many to fully grok. I say this as someone who has lead engineering teams with folks of varying skill levels. RSCs are not worth the extra complexity and mental overhead they bring.

neya 7mo ago

If Rails is considered a worse framework, then I'm pretty much speechless. Not everything has to be about performance. Security is a thing too.

DoesntMatter22 7mo ago
Rails powers nearly 15 percent of the US e-commerce. I love it. Any time I have to use another framework it feels like a huge downgrade. Rails has so many things that make it nice to use
- neya 7mo ago
  Agreed 100%. I shifted to Phoenix/Elixir years ago but I still love Rails for all the sensible defaults it provides.
  - culopatin 7mo ago
    How is the elixir job market these days?
    - neya 7mo ago
      You can find specialized roles than Rails and usually more experienced (understandably) but most companies would be really open if you told them you have a Rails background but want to learn Elixir. The pool size is less, but the pay is more (depending on your demographics, experience, etc) in my personal experience. But, honestly I chose it not for the market, it's just a better programming language to build stuff, period.
  - DoesntMatter22 7mo ago
    Elixir is nice but the console feels like the Stone Age by comparison. That drives me a little crazy
    - neya 7mo ago
      I have the opposite opinion - give me stone age over the colored christmas lights anyday :)