4 ms·

Disgusted by this, I hope that the good people of Israel realize what their hideous regime is doing and stop it. I know for sure that

by coolca 7mo ago

weird_tentacles 7mo ago
[flagged]
RIMR 7mo ago
Damn, the IDF got this guy mid-sentence...
- jihadjihad 7mo ago
  WHAT DOES HE KNOW FOR SURE???
ebbi 7mo ago
The problem is majority of Israeli citizens think the government isn't doing enough. Cue the citizens that protested to stop the aid trucks from going into Gaza. The citizens that protested because the Israeli military arrested (after a lot of international pressure) soldiers that were caught raping Palestinian prisoners. They were protesting for the right of soldiers to continue to rape.
- woodruffw 7mo ago
  > The citizens that protested because the Israeli military arrested (after a lot of international pressure) soldiers that were caught raping Palestinian prisoners. The people you're talking about are Israel's far-right. I don't think you can index from them onto the median Israeli's political views anymore than you could reasonably index from a member of Hamas's armed wing onto the median Palestinian. (A recurring theme in both I/P and MENA conflicts more generally is that political minorities - WB settlers in Israel, for example, manage to wield disproportionate power and induce chaos and strife across the region.)
  - incahoots 7mo ago
    Might behoove you to know how schooling in that "country" is handled..especially when it comes to Palestinians. Below is an excellent insight as to how this is a "country" wide homegrown effort to raise unhinged cilivians that celebrate the murder of children & women. https://electronicintifada.net/content/book-review-how-israeli-school-textbooks-teach-kids-hate/11571 https://electronicintifada.net/content/book-review-how-israe...
    - ebbi 7mo ago
      Exactly. I replied to the comment above, but a lot of people don't appreciate the right-left divide in Israel is very different to that in other western nations. A leftist in Israel would probably be considered extreme right in some other nations.
      - woodruffw 7mo ago
        I know a fair number of leftists of both Israeli and Palestinian extraction, and I don't really think this is true. The more nuanced and IMO correct appreciation of left-right politics in Israel (and MENA more generally) is that they're flavored but not inherently dominated by ethnonationalist movements that reached their fever pitch in the 20th century, and have slowly been replaced by ethoreligious movements that have substituted declining follower numbers for more extreme activity.
    - woodruffw 7mo ago
      I don't know what to tell you. If you think I don't believe that Israel structurally dehumanizes Palestinians, you'd be wrong. But you'd also be wrong in thinking that this is somehow a deviation from the norm; both sides are actively governed by their political extremes, like I said.
      - incahoots 7mo ago
        You're painting with broad-strokes here which comes off as disingenuous, I presume that's not your intention but it calls into question your understanding of the history between these states being laid bare. I suggest reading Hamas' 2017 charter in full for proper context.
kombine 7mo ago
Only 5% of Israelis believe that IDF used too much violence in Gaza..
- Aloisius 7mo ago
  That's surprising low given 21% of the population are Israeli Arabs.
  - kombine 7mo ago
    I should have clarified - that was from the polling of Israeli Jews: https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-783849 https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-783849 94% of them believe IDF used appropriate amount of force or not enough of it.
  - dotancohen 7mo ago
    I'm Israeli and I speak regularly with Arabs. Now mostly with Israeli Arabs but prior to October 2023 I spoke often enough with West Bankers. Every Arab I've spoken with on the topic, states that Israel should have hit Gaza harder and sooner. That's from Arabs in the south (Bedouins) and along the coastal plain and Haifa ('48ers). The Israeli Arabs are more extreme in their viewpoint towards Gaza (not only Hamas) than are the Jewish Israelis.
    - truetraveller 7mo ago
      Okay, this is surprising. But why? Are these Muslim Israeli Arabs? Or Jewish/Christian Arabs?
      - dotancohen 7mo ago
        Muslims Arabs. I talk with them often in Arabic as I'm learning the language. Some Bedouin have family in the strip, most Hamas detractors are Bedouin from what I've been told. The Arabs are not coy - they tell it exactly as it is. I'll be speaking to someone in what I perceive a pleasant conversation, and he'll mention something that I'll realise this guy would murder me under slightly different circumstances - while being hospitable. Their culture is not easy for us to comprehend. Arab society has power struggles as a feature. There is always punching and slapping between family members, and there are always fueds with other extended families. For example, if one wants to find a wife or a job, his family needs honour. So he or his brothers go out and shoot up another family's complex. They are not trying to kill anybody, there are huge consequences if somebody dies. But they do some damage to display that they are an honourable (I guess tough) family, and now the younger family member can find a job or a wife. And this is how, they say, Israel should handle Gaza. When Gaza tries to gain honour in the eyes of their society, they need to be put back in place in a way that they understand culturally. Otherwise Israel will be the family that everybody shoots at.
justin66 7mo ago
> I hope that the good people of Israel realize what their hideous regime is doing and stop it. There’s a small but courageous peace movement in Israel. They don’t have the kind of sway it would take to stop anything.
DSingularity 7mo ago
The good people of israel? You mean the citizen army that carried out the genocide? I am sure they really hate their government but probably because they think its not doing enough.

Disgusted by this, I hope that the good people of Israel realize what their hideous regime is doing and stop it. I know for sure that

by coolca 7mo ago

Disgusted by this, I hope that the good people of Israel realize what their hideous regime is doing and stop it. I know for sure that

weird_tentacles 7mo ago

[flagged]

RIMR 7mo ago

Damn, the IDF got this guy mid-sentence...

jihadjihad 7mo ago
WHAT DOES HE KNOW FOR SURE???

ebbi 7mo ago

The problem is majority of Israeli citizens think the government isn't doing enough. Cue the citizens that protested to stop the aid trucks from going into Gaza. The citizens that protested because the Israeli military arrested (after a lot of international pressure) soldiers that were caught raping Palestinian prisoners. They were protesting for the right of soldiers to continue to rape.

woodruffw 7mo ago
> The citizens that protested because the Israeli military arrested (after a lot of international pressure) soldiers that were caught raping Palestinian prisoners. The people you're talking about are Israel's far-right. I don't think you can index from them onto the median Israeli's political views anymore than you could reasonably index from a member of Hamas's armed wing onto the median Palestinian. (A recurring theme in both I/P and MENA conflicts more generally is that political minorities - WB settlers in Israel, for example, manage to wield disproportionate power and induce chaos and strife across the region.)
- incahoots 7mo ago
  Might behoove you to know how schooling in that "country" is handled..especially when it comes to Palestinians. Below is an excellent insight as to how this is a "country" wide homegrown effort to raise unhinged cilivians that celebrate the murder of children & women. https://electronicintifada.net/content/book-review-how-israeli-school-textbooks-teach-kids-hate/11571 https://electronicintifada.net/content/book-review-how-israe...
  - ebbi 7mo ago
    Exactly. I replied to the comment above, but a lot of people don't appreciate the right-left divide in Israel is very different to that in other western nations. A leftist in Israel would probably be considered extreme right in some other nations.
    - woodruffw 7mo ago
      I know a fair number of leftists of both Israeli and Palestinian extraction, and I don't really think this is true. The more nuanced and IMO correct appreciation of left-right politics in Israel (and MENA more generally) is that they're flavored but not inherently dominated by ethnonationalist movements that reached their fever pitch in the 20th century, and have slowly been replaced by ethoreligious movements that have substituted declining follower numbers for more extreme activity.
  - woodruffw 7mo ago
    I don't know what to tell you. If you think I don't believe that Israel structurally dehumanizes Palestinians, you'd be wrong. But you'd also be wrong in thinking that this is somehow a deviation from the norm; both sides are actively governed by their political extremes, like I said.
    - incahoots 7mo ago
      You're painting with broad-strokes here which comes off as disingenuous, I presume that's not your intention but it calls into question your understanding of the history between these states being laid bare. I suggest reading Hamas' 2017 charter in full for proper context.

kombine 7mo ago

Only 5% of Israelis believe that IDF used too much violence in Gaza..

Aloisius 7mo ago
That's surprising low given 21% of the population are Israeli Arabs.
- kombine 7mo ago
  I should have clarified - that was from the polling of Israeli Jews: https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-783849 https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-783849 94% of them believe IDF used appropriate amount of force or not enough of it.
- dotancohen 7mo ago
  I'm Israeli and I speak regularly with Arabs. Now mostly with Israeli Arabs but prior to October 2023 I spoke often enough with West Bankers. Every Arab I've spoken with on the topic, states that Israel should have hit Gaza harder and sooner. That's from Arabs in the south (Bedouins) and along the coastal plain and Haifa ('48ers). The Israeli Arabs are more extreme in their viewpoint towards Gaza (not only Hamas) than are the Jewish Israelis.
  - truetraveller 7mo ago
    Okay, this is surprising. But why? Are these Muslim Israeli Arabs? Or Jewish/Christian Arabs?
    - dotancohen 7mo ago
      Muslims Arabs. I talk with them often in Arabic as I'm learning the language. Some Bedouin have family in the strip, most Hamas detractors are Bedouin from what I've been told. The Arabs are not coy - they tell it exactly as it is. I'll be speaking to someone in what I perceive a pleasant conversation, and he'll mention something that I'll realise this guy would murder me under slightly different circumstances - while being hospitable. Their culture is not easy for us to comprehend. Arab society has power struggles as a feature. There is always punching and slapping between family members, and there are always fueds with other extended families. For example, if one wants to find a wife or a job, his family needs honour. So he or his brothers go out and shoot up another family's complex. They are not trying to kill anybody, there are huge consequences if somebody dies. But they do some damage to display that they are an honourable (I guess tough) family, and now the younger family member can find a job or a wife. And this is how, they say, Israel should handle Gaza. When Gaza tries to gain honour in the eyes of their society, they need to be put back in place in a way that they understand culturally. Otherwise Israel will be the family that everybody shoots at.

justin66 7mo ago

> I hope that the good people of Israel realize what their hideous regime is doing and stop it. There’s a small but courageous peace movement in Israel. They don’t have the kind of sway it would take to stop anything.

DSingularity 7mo ago

The good people of israel? You mean the citizen army that carried out the genocide? I am sure they really hate their government but probably because they think its not doing enough.