7 ms·

I'm all for walkable/bikeable cities, but that doesn't solve the intrinsic motivation problem either. I live in an area that has a lot of walkable and bikeable

I'm all for walkable/bikeable cities, but that doesn't solve the intrinsic motivation problem either. I live in an area that has a lot of walkable and bikeable things nearby. There are a lot of people who drive anyway. Some because they're older, others because they have kids, others because they have busy schedules, and some are just lazy. So while I'm in favor of better city layout, I don't think this would be a magic solution. > Gyms are for people who have plenty of intrinsic motivation and money and time. There are a lot of ways to work out without a gym. You can go for a walk or run around your neighborhood or even do a lot of workout programs at home. There are many easy workout systems that don't even take a lot of time and are easy to get started if you're not in shape.

BrenBarn 9mo ago
> I live in an area that has a lot of walkable and bikeable things nearby. There are a lot of people who drive anyway. The less warm and fuzzy part of this urban-design approach is that it can't just be about making things easier to walk to, it also has to be about making them harder to drive to. For instance, by making parking limited and/or expensive. People tend not to like that idea, although I think there's a good likelihood they'd actually be happy with it if not for the meta-awareness of having "lost" parking.
- Aurornis 9mo ago
  People don't like that idea because it's highly exclusionary. It only sounds good to younger people who don't have any disabilities, kids, grandparents who want to come along, or any number of other valid reasons to walk. It's also highly indicative of the weather where you're from. Forcing people to bike and walk everywhere sounds a lot better if you're in a moderate climate where bad weather means you need to pack a light jacket and wait for the light rain to stop. Move somewhere with harsh winters and the moralizing about people driving places stops making sense quickly.
  - fusslo 9mo ago
    When I was in SF, the coworkers who drove in were those who lived outside of the city who were trying to save money and raise family. Buying a home in the city is impossible for these people (and me). Mostly less prestigious jobs, like cleaners, technicians, office managers. Not the App guys making 300k living in the Marina. It's often an unintended tax on the poor. IDK maybe there's some middle ground where we beef up public transport while beefing up parking at stations.
    - TheCoelacanth 9mo ago
      That's a problem of not building enough walkable areas relative to how many people want to live in walkable areas, leading to them being expensive because of many people competing for scarce resources. Car-centric infrastructure is incredibly expensive, so there's no inherent reason for walkable areas to be more expensive.
  - Herring 9mo ago
    This might sound reasonable, but it's a solved problem in Europe. They have plenty of old/disabled people and harsh winters there too. Many parts are de-emphasizing cars.
    - deleted 9mo ago
      [deleted]
  - jackvalentine 9mo ago
    What you've just said is a common refrain, if you haven't already seen it please take a look at these two videos that attempt to address part of what you're saying. I found them very interesting when I came across them years ago and it changed my view of what's possible or even good! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSGx3HSjKDo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSGx3HSjKDo "Who else benefits from the Dutch cycling infrastructure" (old people, disabled people) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU "Why Canadians Can't Bike in the Winter (but Finnish people can)" (frozen Finnish winters)

BrenBarn 9mo ago

> I live in an area that has a lot of walkable and bikeable things nearby. There are a lot of people who drive anyway. The less warm and fuzzy part of this urban-design approach is that it can't just be about making things easier to walk to, it also has to be about making them harder to drive to. For instance, by making parking limited and/or expensive. People tend not to like that idea, although I think there's a good likelihood they'd actually be happy with it if not for the meta-awareness of having "lost" parking.

Aurornis 9mo ago
People don't like that idea because it's highly exclusionary. It only sounds good to younger people who don't have any disabilities, kids, grandparents who want to come along, or any number of other valid reasons to walk. It's also highly indicative of the weather where you're from. Forcing people to bike and walk everywhere sounds a lot better if you're in a moderate climate where bad weather means you need to pack a light jacket and wait for the light rain to stop. Move somewhere with harsh winters and the moralizing about people driving places stops making sense quickly.
- fusslo 9mo ago
  When I was in SF, the coworkers who drove in were those who lived outside of the city who were trying to save money and raise family. Buying a home in the city is impossible for these people (and me). Mostly less prestigious jobs, like cleaners, technicians, office managers. Not the App guys making 300k living in the Marina. It's often an unintended tax on the poor. IDK maybe there's some middle ground where we beef up public transport while beefing up parking at stations.
  - TheCoelacanth 9mo ago
    That's a problem of not building enough walkable areas relative to how many people want to live in walkable areas, leading to them being expensive because of many people competing for scarce resources. Car-centric infrastructure is incredibly expensive, so there's no inherent reason for walkable areas to be more expensive.
- Herring 9mo ago
  This might sound reasonable, but it's a solved problem in Europe. They have plenty of old/disabled people and harsh winters there too. Many parts are de-emphasizing cars.
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
- jackvalentine 9mo ago
  What you've just said is a common refrain, if you haven't already seen it please take a look at these two videos that attempt to address part of what you're saying. I found them very interesting when I came across them years ago and it changed my view of what's possible or even good! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSGx3HSjKDo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSGx3HSjKDo "Who else benefits from the Dutch cycling infrastructure" (old people, disabled people) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU "Why Canadians Can't Bike in the Winter (but Finnish people can)" (frozen Finnish winters)