3 ms·

I'm a linguist and yes I'll stick to that "human-chauvinistic stance until an animal can tell me otherwise.

Razengan 8mo ago
I mean there are space physicists who don't understand dark matter, etc. I think this is a "qualia" issue: Like for example biologists can find out what kind of light frequencies the eyes of a mantis shrimp can receive, but we'll never know what it FEELS like to be able to see a zillion times more colors. You can see this happen with human languages too: Ever walk around in a different country? your brain doesn't even register the sounds other people are making.
- bitwize 8mo ago
  It turns out that the fact that mantis shrimp have 12 different color receptors in their eyes means they can see... 12 colors. They can't combine the input from the different color receptors into a spectrum like we and other vertebrates can. Their eyes even perceive different things in different regions of the compound eye. It's a surprisingly limited visual system for all its supposed extra capabilities compared to ours, which to your point makes "seeing like a mantis shrimp" even more inscrutable from our POV.
  - Razengan 8mo ago
    Nnnooooo they nerfed my hero!!
soulofmischief 8mo ago
"For over two decades, Professor Toshitaka Suzuki dedicated his life to studying the Japanese tit — a small songbird native to Japan’s forests. Through years of careful observation and experiments, he discovered something incredible: these birds use grammar-like rules and combine sounds to form meaning, much like how humans use language." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmys2abx4co https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmys2abx4co
- suddenlybananas 8mo ago
  I'm familiar with this case. The "language" of the birds is so profoundly primitive (it's limited to 2 word combos where the meaning is just the meaning of both words). Here's a good blogpost about it. https://facultyoflanguage.blogspot.com/2016/03/a-triple-of-readables.html?m=1 https://facultyoflanguage.blogspot.com/2016/03/a-triple-of-r...
  - soulofmischief 8mo ago
    If we're going to be able to have a meaningful discussion on this, first you will need to provide for me the definition of language under which you're operating.
  - Razengan 8mo ago
    This takes more than just being a "linguist"; you need to be a biolinguist/xenolinguist :)

I mean there are space physicists who don't understand dark matter, etc. I think this is a "qualia" issue: Like for example biologists can find out what kind of light frequencies the eyes of a mantis shrimp can receive, but we'll never know what it FEELS like to be able to see a zillion times more colors. You can see this happen with human languages too: Ever walk around in a different country? your brain doesn't even register the sounds other people are making.

bitwize 8mo ago
It turns out that the fact that mantis shrimp have 12 different color receptors in their eyes means they can see... 12 colors. They can't combine the input from the different color receptors into a spectrum like we and other vertebrates can. Their eyes even perceive different things in different regions of the compound eye. It's a surprisingly limited visual system for all its supposed extra capabilities compared to ours, which to your point makes "seeing like a mantis shrimp" even more inscrutable from our POV.
- Razengan 8mo ago
  Nnnooooo they nerfed my hero!!

soulofmischief 8mo ago

"For over two decades, Professor Toshitaka Suzuki dedicated his life to studying the Japanese tit — a small songbird native to Japan’s forests. Through years of careful observation and experiments, he discovered something incredible: these birds use grammar-like rules and combine sounds to form meaning, much like how humans use language." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmys2abx4co https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmys2abx4co

suddenlybananas 8mo ago
I'm familiar with this case. The "language" of the birds is so profoundly primitive (it's limited to 2 word combos where the meaning is just the meaning of both words). Here's a good blogpost about it. https://facultyoflanguage.blogspot.com/2016/03/a-triple-of-readables.html?m=1 https://facultyoflanguage.blogspot.com/2016/03/a-triple-of-r...
- soulofmischief 8mo ago
  If we're going to be able to have a meaningful discussion on this, first you will need to provide for me the definition of language under which you're operating.
- Razengan 8mo ago
  This takes more than just being a "linguist"; you need to be a biolinguist/xenolinguist :)