16 ms·

We need a new Internet which can't be accessed by bots or where bots can't interact.

consumer451 8mo ago
A crazy thought I had is that agents without a link to human identity might need to be treated as illegal. That human identity would be blamed the for the agent's actions. This raises a rats nest of issues, but will we be able to avoid this necessity?
- nottorp 8mo ago
  I can think of a bunch of governments who would love that. Most are considered totaliarian. So... you can't win.
  - consumer451 8mo ago
    Theoretically, if you did trust your government, couldn't zero-knowledge proofs be used to allow such a system? I am a dunce about this stuff, so genuinely asking. Example that seems like it should be required for all age verification systems, if linkability is addressed: https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/technology/safety-security/opening-up-zero-knowledge-proof-technology-to-promote-privacy-in-age-assurance/ https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/technology/safety-secu...
    - nottorp 8mo ago
      > Theoretically, if you did trust your government, Trust not to misuse my data intentionally? Trust to not lose my data due to incompetence? Trust to not subcontract this service to some spying company like Google? > couldn't zero-knowledge proofs be used to allow such a system? They could, but will they really be zero knowledge or there will be some intermediary leftovers that aren't zero knowledge? See trust in competence above.
pjc50 8mo ago
Quite difficult given that humans can't interact with the internet "directly", but only mediated through software.
fooker 8mo ago
This is an interesting problem to solve. I wonder if it is possible at all to have anonymity without admitting bots.
SanjayMehta 8mo ago
Set up a book club, meet in the park, or a coffee shop.
irusensei 8mo ago
And how would you do that without dystopian verification checks? The reasons why Youtube and Discord are so gung ho on age verification might be because these companies that sell ads and data have a monetary incentive for distinguishing humans from bots for their investors and shareholders. If I were to chose I'd rather have a bot infested internet than a mass surveillance dystopia.
- theshrike79 8mo ago
  We had this dystopian thing called PGP Signing Parties ages and ages ago.
ben_w 8mo ago
I think you've just thought of CAPTCHAs? Unfortunately, AI have increasingly become better than humans at solving the tasks we throw at them for such tests.
sph 8mo ago
We need gated communities. The idea of a public internet has run its course, it's now an ocean of noise.
- 1718627440 8mo ago
  Honestly the internet is fine, although contested with attackers. It's the WWW that contains these problems. Please don't throw out the child with the bath.
theshrike79 8mo ago
I've been trying to will a web of trust style system into existence for a while now, I lack both the marketing skills and programming know-how to actually create it though =) Basically a way to see on every web page whether an actual human (or more) in your network has vouched for the content to be written by a person.

A crazy thought I had is that agents without a link to human identity might need to be treated as illegal. That human identity would be blamed the for the agent's actions. This raises a rats nest of issues, but will we be able to avoid this necessity?

nottorp 8mo ago
I can think of a bunch of governments who would love that. Most are considered totaliarian. So... you can't win.
- consumer451 8mo ago
  Theoretically, if you did trust your government, couldn't zero-knowledge proofs be used to allow such a system? I am a dunce about this stuff, so genuinely asking. Example that seems like it should be required for all age verification systems, if linkability is addressed: https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/technology/safety-security/opening-up-zero-knowledge-proof-technology-to-promote-privacy-in-age-assurance/ https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/technology/safety-secu...
  - nottorp 8mo ago
    > Theoretically, if you did trust your government, Trust not to misuse my data intentionally? Trust to not lose my data due to incompetence? Trust to not subcontract this service to some spying company like Google? > couldn't zero-knowledge proofs be used to allow such a system? They could, but will they really be zero knowledge or there will be some intermediary leftovers that aren't zero knowledge? See trust in competence above.

pjc50 8mo ago

Quite difficult given that humans can't interact with the internet "directly", but only mediated through software.

fooker 8mo ago

This is an interesting problem to solve. I wonder if it is possible at all to have anonymity without admitting bots.

SanjayMehta 8mo ago

Set up a book club, meet in the park, or a coffee shop.

irusensei 8mo ago

And how would you do that without dystopian verification checks? The reasons why Youtube and Discord are so gung ho on age verification might be because these companies that sell ads and data have a monetary incentive for distinguishing humans from bots for their investors and shareholders. If I were to chose I'd rather have a bot infested internet than a mass surveillance dystopia.

theshrike79 8mo ago
We had this dystopian thing called PGP Signing Parties ages and ages ago.

ben_w 8mo ago

I think you've just thought of CAPTCHAs? Unfortunately, AI have increasingly become better than humans at solving the tasks we throw at them for such tests.

sph 8mo ago

We need gated communities. The idea of a public internet has run its course, it's now an ocean of noise.

1718627440 8mo ago
Honestly the internet is fine, although contested with attackers. It's the WWW that contains these problems. Please don't throw out the child with the bath.

theshrike79 8mo ago

I've been trying to will a web of trust style system into existence for a while now, I lack both the marketing skills and programming know-how to actually create it though =) Basically a way to see on every web page whether an actual human (or more) in your network has vouched for the content to be written by a person.