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If math is best served by standardized tests, and a well-regarded and skilled math teacher is quitting because they're drowning his class in tests and test prep

by fatbird 14y ago

If math is best served by standardized tests, and a well-regarded and skilled math teacher is quitting because they're drowning his class in tests and test preparation rather than giving him the time to actually educate... What does that say for non-math areas like English or Art or History?

JumpCrisscross 14y ago
>"Nothing happened after over 300 applications and 2 interviews.* Is a 2/3 of one percent application-to-interview rate normal for this field?
- xyzzyb 14y ago
  That included applications to places like Toys-R-Us.
- curtis 14y ago
  It's possible that there was a state-wide hiring freeze on teachers. State revenues, like federal revenues, declined substantially during the economic downturn. And since education is usually a major part of state budgets, it becomes a primary target for spending cuts if the state government is trying to reduce the amount of debt they're accumulating. A lot of states have balanced budget requirements, but I don't know if Oregon is one. Even if Oregon doesn't have a balanced budget requirement, there will still be substantial political pressure for the state government to reduce spending.
- VLM 14y ago
  I'm related to two teachers, and the answer is yes, if not worse. In IT/CS we're used to extreme pigeon-holing of personnel (So, I'm the guy who was hired to install using LVM and ext2 but we'd never hire a guy who listed ext3 on his resume...) Its all about the pigeon-holing and resume keyword scanning. In the teaching world, its simpler, more like "we want to hire a grade school teacher". Aside from some HR fluff, that's pretty much it for the hiring ad. If there are 200 districts in your state, all of whom hire "someone" every year because of quitting / retirement / firing / whatever, then you have to send out 200 resumes to each district, just like every other unemployed teacher and/or new grad. The majority of new grads end up as retail clerks or waitresses, of course, but some do get hired. Most get hired because someone knows them... but the eternal hope of being the only applicant somewhere springs eternal, and each application only costs a small amount of time and money, so its a lotto mentality.
- stevenbedrick 14y ago
  Sadly, that is indeed normal for people looking for jobs as teachers in Oregon, and has been normal for at least the last several years. The only districts that are really hiring are the very rural ones, and even then it is usually just one or two positions.
dubya 14y ago
I read this as "if any area is well-served by standardized tests, it's math" rather than "standardized tests are the best thing to happen to math". Sort of like a honey badger is best served by a snake bite. The AMS Notices has an interesting article about a mathematician using his sabbatical to teach high school math that overlaps a little bit with this post: http://www.ams.org/notices/201210/rtx121001408p.pdf http://www.ams.org/notices/201210/rtx121001408p.pdf
- fatbird 14y ago
  I read it the same way as you did, that math is the best-case area for standardized testing. Thus my point: If standardized testing leads to this kind of 'driving out the good' in math, where it's most easily and effectively used to measure performance, what does that mean for less-well-served areas?

by fatbird 14y ago

JumpCrisscross 14y ago

>"Nothing happened after over 300 applications and 2 interviews.* Is a 2/3 of one percent application-to-interview rate normal for this field?

xyzzyb 14y ago
That included applications to places like Toys-R-Us.
curtis 14y ago
It's possible that there was a state-wide hiring freeze on teachers. State revenues, like federal revenues, declined substantially during the economic downturn. And since education is usually a major part of state budgets, it becomes a primary target for spending cuts if the state government is trying to reduce the amount of debt they're accumulating. A lot of states have balanced budget requirements, but I don't know if Oregon is one. Even if Oregon doesn't have a balanced budget requirement, there will still be substantial political pressure for the state government to reduce spending.
VLM 14y ago
I'm related to two teachers, and the answer is yes, if not worse. In IT/CS we're used to extreme pigeon-holing of personnel (So, I'm the guy who was hired to install using LVM and ext2 but we'd never hire a guy who listed ext3 on his resume...) Its all about the pigeon-holing and resume keyword scanning. In the teaching world, its simpler, more like "we want to hire a grade school teacher". Aside from some HR fluff, that's pretty much it for the hiring ad. If there are 200 districts in your state, all of whom hire "someone" every year because of quitting / retirement / firing / whatever, then you have to send out 200 resumes to each district, just like every other unemployed teacher and/or new grad. The majority of new grads end up as retail clerks or waitresses, of course, but some do get hired. Most get hired because someone knows them... but the eternal hope of being the only applicant somewhere springs eternal, and each application only costs a small amount of time and money, so its a lotto mentality.
stevenbedrick 14y ago
Sadly, that is indeed normal for people looking for jobs as teachers in Oregon, and has been normal for at least the last several years. The only districts that are really hiring are the very rural ones, and even then it is usually just one or two positions.

dubya 14y ago

I read this as "if any area is well-served by standardized tests, it's math" rather than "standardized tests are the best thing to happen to math". Sort of like a honey badger is best served by a snake bite. The AMS Notices has an interesting article about a mathematician using his sabbatical to teach high school math that overlaps a little bit with this post: http://www.ams.org/notices/201210/rtx121001408p.pdf http://www.ams.org/notices/201210/rtx121001408p.pdf

fatbird 14y ago
I read it the same way as you did, that math is the best-case area for standardized testing. Thus my point: If standardized testing leads to this kind of 'driving out the good' in math, where it's most easily and effectively used to measure performance, what does that mean for less-well-served areas?