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Firefox does what some people want, people complain. Firefox does what other people want, people complain. Firefox does what both people want, people complain.

Firefox does what some people want, people complain. Firefox does what other people want, people complain. Firefox does what both people want, people complain. I'm sorry, but we'll never get corporations to do what we want if we don't throw them the smallest bone when we get our way. You need positive reinforcement too, not just negative. If it's all negative they just stop caring and you get companies lot Google who just don't give a shit anymore. And yes, there are some AI features I like and I want in the browser. I get a lot of utility out of translation as well as semantic search of my history. I don't want agents in my browser but get, Firefox is giving us choices. Look, no one needs to like Firefox, but let's also be honest, it's the best we got right now. Google, Apple, and Microsoft are shoving agents down our throats and putting us in walled gardens that are getting harder and harder to break from. I don't care what flavor of chromium you use, Google is still using it to control the way the web works. Everyone loves to say how chromium is has greater coverage of standards but never takes a second to question who sets those standards. I'm sorry guys, that's the state of things now. You can't fight Google by switching to chromium. It's still their vehicle to eat the internet. Our choices right now are Safari, Firefox, and maybe ladybird. It's slim pickings and nothing is close to perfect. At this point it doesn't even matter if Mozilla is evil, because at least they're the enemy of our enemy. Google is keeping them on life support to avoid monopoly claims but how long will they need that? So what, we're just going to hand the keys of the kingdom to the guys selling artisian turd sandwiches because what, there isn't enough mayo on your ham sandwich? Because you don't like ham? We got a win. Celebrate. Take the break from being cynical. There's bigger battles to fight and there'll be more tomorrow. Take the night off and don't be a sore winner

bartvk 8mo ago
Nowadays, I avoid certain topics. For instance any post about macOS becomes one giant complaint. Thanks for staying positive. I like Firefox, I think it's a very nice holdout against adware.
PunchyHamster 8mo ago
> So what, we're just going to hand the keys of the kingdom to the guys selling artisian turd sandwiches because what, there isn't enough mayo on your ham sandwich? Because you don't like ham? Firefox is the artisan turd sandwich. They are burning dev time on features barely anyone asked, while bleeding market share for last decade
- godelski 8mo ago
  Okay, so in your version who is Google? And chromium?
- Orygin 8mo ago
  > They are burning dev time on features barely anyone asked Got a source for that? HackerNews is *not* representative of the average browser user.
  - account42 8mo ago
    The average browser user isn't using Firefox and won't be any time soon.
    - Orygin 8mo ago
      If you don't add features that the average user might want, then yeah there won't be any more new users.
      - account42 8mo ago
        If you are competing with giants, you don't go after the average user but an under-served niche instead.
        Orygin 8mo ago
        If you go to a niche you never grow then. There are plenty of browsers that already serve those niches anyway
- glenstein 8mo ago
  This is a narrative that got hallucinated into existence by comment sections. Most of the effort goes towards the core browser and always has, side bets have found their ways into headlines and comment sections from users overestimating the resources necessary to build them out while underestimating the scale of regular work like security patches and performance improvements.
mort96 8mo ago
Who has expressed a desire for Firefox to become "an AI browser"? Because that's the source of the complaints. I don't want to use an "AI browser", kill switch or not. If this "AI browser" dies because of their mission to destroy community goodwill, good. I'm sick of giving the benefit of the doubt every time they royally fuck up. This situation where they're the steward of the only non-Google browser is not tenable, something needs to change.
- godelski 8mo ago
  > This situation where they're the steward of the only non-Google browser is not tenable, something needs to change. So what, you're going to help Google shove the knife in deeper? Idk man, seems like a bad way to fight Google. But honestly it just feels like you didn't even read my comment. I'm sorry that it's a lot, but I'm petty sure people can handle 10-30 seconds of reading. I even said it doesn't matter if Mozilla is evil. How do you turn that into me giving them the benefit of the doubt. I'm literally just arguing that there's slim pickings and to not help our bigger enemy to kill their enemies. It doesn't matter if their enemies ate evil, you're just helping the bigger evil get bigger and consolidate power. I'm saying "there's more important problems right now, not be fucking dumb and get distracted or before you know it you'll lose your head"
  - mort96 8mo ago
    Letting Mozilla torpedo the only non-Google browser is also a bad way to fight Google. It's looking bleak. The only hope is that Mozilla dies and someone more serious picks up the mantle. Not sure who that would be though.
    - godelski 8mo ago
      But that's not what happened. That's not the context of the thread. The battle was won. So celebrate. The war may not be over but it's not like we lost. > someone more serious picks up the mantle. Let's cross that bridge when/IF we get there. But until then, maybe don't set the stage for them to take up that mantle. If all we do is complain then obviously they'll just learn to ignore us. So don't sour the victory, it'll cost you the war
TiredOfLife 8mo ago
The reason people complain is because Mozilla claims it's better and more pure than everybody else.
- godelski 8mo ago
  Well "everybody else" is Google. I'm not sure that bar is even high enough to trip over.
  - TiredOfLife 8mo ago
    Google doesn't sell my data. Mozilla does.
    - HWR_14 8mo ago
      What data did you let Mozilla have?
    - godelski 8mo ago
      Google doesn't sell your data?! What are you even talking about?! Do you think Google doesn't have your data because you don't use chrome? Do you think Google doesn't gave your data because you don't use Google search? Do you think Google doesn't have your data because you don't use Android? Do you think Google doesn't have your data because you don't use Gmail? Do you think Google doesn't have your data because you don't use YouTube? I hate to break it to you but you don't even have to use Google products for Google to have data on you. Facebook isn't the only one with tech like "Facebook pixel". You visit any website with ad sense and Google has your data. There's very little you can do on the internet that doesn't result in Google grabbing your data. As for Mozilla, citation needed. I'm you to need evidence of this claim. I keep hearing it, but I've never seen it. I see people try to read between the lines but come on, give us some hard evidence
      - TiredOfLife 8mo ago
        Yes Google has my data, but they don't sell it. Mozilla has my data and sells it.
mock-possum 8mo ago
Corpos are not entitled to bones.
account42 8mo ago
If I smash your window every day but one day after being asked to stop again and again I decide to just leave poop on your front porch instead, should you not complain about the poop? Malicious compliance is no compliance, it is still malicious.

bartvk 8mo ago

Nowadays, I avoid certain topics. For instance any post about macOS becomes one giant complaint. Thanks for staying positive. I like Firefox, I think it's a very nice holdout against adware.

PunchyHamster 8mo ago

> So what, we're just going to hand the keys of the kingdom to the guys selling artisian turd sandwiches because what, there isn't enough mayo on your ham sandwich? Because you don't like ham? Firefox is the artisan turd sandwich. They are burning dev time on features barely anyone asked, while bleeding market share for last decade

godelski 8mo ago
Okay, so in your version who is Google? And chromium?
Orygin 8mo ago
> They are burning dev time on features barely anyone asked Got a source for that? HackerNews is *not* representative of the average browser user.
- account42 8mo ago
  The average browser user isn't using Firefox and won't be any time soon.
  - Orygin 8mo ago
    If you don't add features that the average user might want, then yeah there won't be any more new users.
    - account42 8mo ago
      If you are competing with giants, you don't go after the average user but an under-served niche instead.
      - Orygin 8mo ago
        If you go to a niche you never grow then. There are plenty of browsers that already serve those niches anyway
glenstein 8mo ago
This is a narrative that got hallucinated into existence by comment sections. Most of the effort goes towards the core browser and always has, side bets have found their ways into headlines and comment sections from users overestimating the resources necessary to build them out while underestimating the scale of regular work like security patches and performance improvements.

mort96 8mo ago

Who has expressed a desire for Firefox to become "an AI browser"? Because that's the source of the complaints. I don't want to use an "AI browser", kill switch or not. If this "AI browser" dies because of their mission to destroy community goodwill, good. I'm sick of giving the benefit of the doubt every time they royally fuck up. This situation where they're the steward of the only non-Google browser is not tenable, something needs to change.

godelski 8mo ago
> This situation where they're the steward of the only non-Google browser is not tenable, something needs to change. So what, you're going to help Google shove the knife in deeper? Idk man, seems like a bad way to fight Google. But honestly it just feels like you didn't even read my comment. I'm sorry that it's a lot, but I'm petty sure people can handle 10-30 seconds of reading. I even said it doesn't matter if Mozilla is evil. How do you turn that into me giving them the benefit of the doubt. I'm literally just arguing that there's slim pickings and to not help our bigger enemy to kill their enemies. It doesn't matter if their enemies ate evil, you're just helping the bigger evil get bigger and consolidate power. I'm saying "there's more important problems right now, not be fucking dumb and get distracted or before you know it you'll lose your head"
- mort96 8mo ago
  Letting Mozilla torpedo the only non-Google browser is also a bad way to fight Google. It's looking bleak. The only hope is that Mozilla dies and someone more serious picks up the mantle. Not sure who that would be though.
  - godelski 8mo ago
    But that's not what happened. That's not the context of the thread. The battle was won. So celebrate. The war may not be over but it's not like we lost. > someone more serious picks up the mantle. Let's cross that bridge when/IF we get there. But until then, maybe don't set the stage for them to take up that mantle. If all we do is complain then obviously they'll just learn to ignore us. So don't sour the victory, it'll cost you the war

TiredOfLife 8mo ago

The reason people complain is because Mozilla claims it's better and more pure than everybody else.

godelski 8mo ago
Well "everybody else" is Google. I'm not sure that bar is even high enough to trip over.
- TiredOfLife 8mo ago
  Google doesn't sell my data. Mozilla does.
  - HWR_14 8mo ago
    What data did you let Mozilla have?
  - godelski 8mo ago
    Google doesn't sell your data?! What are you even talking about?! Do you think Google doesn't have your data because you don't use chrome? Do you think Google doesn't gave your data because you don't use Google search? Do you think Google doesn't have your data because you don't use Android? Do you think Google doesn't have your data because you don't use Gmail? Do you think Google doesn't have your data because you don't use YouTube? I hate to break it to you but you don't even have to use Google products for Google to have data on you. Facebook isn't the only one with tech like "Facebook pixel". You visit any website with ad sense and Google has your data. There's very little you can do on the internet that doesn't result in Google grabbing your data. As for Mozilla, citation needed. I'm you to need evidence of this claim. I keep hearing it, but I've never seen it. I see people try to read between the lines but come on, give us some hard evidence
    - TiredOfLife 8mo ago
      Yes Google has my data, but they don't sell it. Mozilla has my data and sells it.

mock-possum 8mo ago

Corpos are not entitled to bones.

account42 8mo ago

If I smash your window every day but one day after being asked to stop again and again I decide to just leave poop on your front porch instead, should you not complain about the poop? Malicious compliance is no compliance, it is still malicious.