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What conditions would be acceptable for ending the war? Surrender the whole country? Surrender part of it, then wait for the Russians to violate the agreement a

What conditions would be acceptable for ending the war? Surrender the whole country? Surrender part of it, then wait for the Russians to violate the agreement again?

tinfoilhatter 9mo ago
Ukraine will cease to be a country without a working-age male population. What agreement are you referring to when you say again exactly? The war started in 2014 over Russia offering to bankroll a loan that was previously issued by the IMF / World Bank, and was up for renewal (with structural adjustments of course). Also the ousting of former president Viktor Yanukovych during Euromaidan played into it.
- wat10000 9mo ago
  I’m referring to the Budapest Memorandum, in which Russia and the other signatories agreed to respect Ukraine’s sovereignty in exchange for giving up their nuclear weapons. So, what’s the answer? What would be acceptable conditions to end the war?
  - tinfoilhatter 9mo ago
    The Budapest Memorandum provided security assurances, not guarantees. As I said in one of my previous comments, the situation is far more complex than Russia bad, Ukraine good. If you want to talk bout the Budapest Memorandum you also have to talk about NATO expansion, what has gone on in Ukraine since the memorandum was established, the diplomatic policies of Western powers involved in the Memorandum and NGOs. Acceptable conditions to end the war would be whatever prevents the sacrifice of Ukraine's working-age male population. Otherwise, as I also said in my previous comments, there will be no more Ukraine. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum [2] https://globalgeopolitics.co.uk/2025/12/06/how-a-non-binding-budapest-memorandum-became-a-war-narrative/ https://globalgeopolitics.co.uk/2025/12/06/how-a-non-binding...
    - wat10000 9mo ago
      “The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and The United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.” It’s not complicated. I don’t care what you want to call it, they pretty clearly violated it. What conditions would do that? You say they should end the war. How? What exactly would peace look like in your view? Or are you just vaguely wishing? If you asked me how Putin could stop the war and preserve his country, I’d be able to answer that easily. But I have no idea how Zelenskyy could. Educate me.
      - tinfoilhatter 8mo ago
        Do you know what the difference between an assurance and a guarantee is? There was no formal treaty declared. Russia could say that Ukraine violated provisions in the agreements, and has said so. Who is right? It actually is quite complicated, but you choose to reduce the situation to black and white. There's unlikely to be peace by design - because the war isn't about Ukrainian sovereignty it's about genociding slavs on both sides of the conflict. You clearly haven't read the book War is a Racket, which is why you don't understand that all wars - including the one in Ukraine - are fought to benefit a select few at the expense of the populations of the nations involved. Your proposed solution for stopping the war is a non-starter because that's not how wars work - it's delusional to think it would ever happen.
        wat10000 8mo ago
        So what does peace look like? You say he should sue for peace. Does that mean proposing that Russia retreat to pre-2014 borders? Pre-2022 borders? Borders at the current front lines? Something in between? What do you think would work? The fact that you can’t describe what Zelenskyy should do to stop the bleeding beyond a uselessly vague “sue for peace” tells me that your objection isn’t really Zelenskyy’s handling of the war, your objection is to the fact that he exists as the leader of a place that Russia wants.

What conditions would be acceptable for ending the war? Surrender the whole country? Surrender part of it, then wait for the Russians to violate the agreement again?

tinfoilhatter 9mo ago

Ukraine will cease to be a country without a working-age male population. What agreement are you referring to when you say again exactly? The war started in 2014 over Russia offering to bankroll a loan that was previously issued by the IMF / World Bank, and was up for renewal (with structural adjustments of course). Also the ousting of former president Viktor Yanukovych during Euromaidan played into it.

wat10000 9mo ago
I’m referring to the Budapest Memorandum, in which Russia and the other signatories agreed to respect Ukraine’s sovereignty in exchange for giving up their nuclear weapons. So, what’s the answer? What would be acceptable conditions to end the war?
- tinfoilhatter 9mo ago
  The Budapest Memorandum provided security assurances, not guarantees. As I said in one of my previous comments, the situation is far more complex than Russia bad, Ukraine good. If you want to talk bout the Budapest Memorandum you also have to talk about NATO expansion, what has gone on in Ukraine since the memorandum was established, the diplomatic policies of Western powers involved in the Memorandum and NGOs. Acceptable conditions to end the war would be whatever prevents the sacrifice of Ukraine's working-age male population. Otherwise, as I also said in my previous comments, there will be no more Ukraine. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum [2] https://globalgeopolitics.co.uk/2025/12/06/how-a-non-binding-budapest-memorandum-became-a-war-narrative/ https://globalgeopolitics.co.uk/2025/12/06/how-a-non-binding...
  - wat10000 9mo ago
    “The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and The United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.” It’s not complicated. I don’t care what you want to call it, they pretty clearly violated it. What conditions would do that? You say they should end the war. How? What exactly would peace look like in your view? Or are you just vaguely wishing? If you asked me how Putin could stop the war and preserve his country, I’d be able to answer that easily. But I have no idea how Zelenskyy could. Educate me.
    - tinfoilhatter 8mo ago
      Do you know what the difference between an assurance and a guarantee is? There was no formal treaty declared. Russia could say that Ukraine violated provisions in the agreements, and has said so. Who is right? It actually is quite complicated, but you choose to reduce the situation to black and white. There's unlikely to be peace by design - because the war isn't about Ukrainian sovereignty it's about genociding slavs on both sides of the conflict. You clearly haven't read the book War is a Racket, which is why you don't understand that all wars - including the one in Ukraine - are fought to benefit a select few at the expense of the populations of the nations involved. Your proposed solution for stopping the war is a non-starter because that's not how wars work - it's delusional to think it would ever happen.
      - wat10000 8mo ago
        So what does peace look like? You say he should sue for peace. Does that mean proposing that Russia retreat to pre-2014 borders? Pre-2022 borders? Borders at the current front lines? Something in between? What do you think would work? The fact that you can’t describe what Zelenskyy should do to stop the bleeding beyond a uselessly vague “sue for peace” tells me that your objection isn’t really Zelenskyy’s handling of the war, your objection is to the fact that he exists as the leader of a place that Russia wants.