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The author specifically said that they did not read the code or even test the output very thoroughly. It was intentionally just a naive toy they wanted to play

by petcat 8mo ago

The author specifically said that they did not read the code or even test the output very thoroughly. It was intentionally just a naive toy they wanted to play around with. Nothing to do with AI, or even the capabilities of AI. The person intentionally didn't put in much effort.

dude250711 8mo ago
> The person intentionally didn't put in much effort. Aren't you just describing every vibe code ever? To think about it, that is probably my main issue with AI art/books etc. They never put in any effort. In fact, even the competition is about putting least effort.
Gigachad 8mo ago
Seems like they did put in quite a bit of effort, but were not knowledgeable enough on wifi drivers to go further. So hardware drivers are not a solved problem where you can just ask chatgpt for a driver and it spits one out for you.
- freeplay 8mo ago
  If you could write drivers in javascript, it probably would have done just fine /s
slopinthebag 8mo ago
> The author specifically said that they did not read the code or even test the output very thoroughly. It was intentionally just a naive toy they wanted to play around with. Yes and that's what I'm pointing out, they vibe coded it and the headline is somewhat misleading, although it's not the authors fault if you don't go read the article before commenting. But it does have to do with AI (obviously), and specifically the capabilities of AI. If you need to be knowledgable about how wifi drivers work and put in effort to get a decent result, that obviously speaks volumes about the capabilities of the vibe coding approach.
- petcat 8mo ago
  I strongly suspect that somebody with domain knowledge around Wi-Fi drivers and OS kernel drivers could prompt the llm to spit out a lot more robust code than this guy was able to. That's not a knock on him, he was just trying to see what he could do. It's impressive what he actually accomplished given how little effort he put forth and how little knowledge he had about the subject.
  - slopinthebag 8mo ago
    Someone with domain knowledge could also just write the code instead of trying to get the stochastic prediction machine to generate it. I thought the whole point was to allow people without said expertise to generate it. After all, that seems to be the promise.
    - garciasn 8mo ago
      Clearly there wasn't much appetite for someone to do that.
    - luckydata 8mo ago
      It will be like that at some point soon, just not now. Are you trying to make the point that because this technology is not yet perfect the fact that it can already do so much is unimpressive?
      - slopinthebag 8mo ago
        Will it happen before or after we get fusion energy? I heard that was coming soon too.
    - cortesoft 8mo ago
      > Someone with domain knowledge could also just write the code instead of trying to get the stochastic prediction machine to generate it. Well, people with the domain knowledge exist, yet they have not yet written this driver... why not? Because there is other code those experts want to write, and they don't have time to write it all... but what if they could just give a fairly straightforward prompt and have the LLM do it for them? And if it only took minor tweaks to the prompt to have it write drivers for all the myriad combinations of hardware and software? At that point, there might be enough time to write it all. Just because people exist that can DO all the work doesn't mean we have enough person-hours to do ALL the work.
acedTrex 8mo ago
> Nothing to do with AI, or even the capabilities of AI. The person intentionally didn't put in much effort. The part to do with AI is that it was not able to drive a comprehensive and bug free driver with minimal effort from the human. That is the point.
- dangus 8mo ago
  I’m not able to provide a comprehensive bug free driver.
- rayiner 8mo ago
  Why is that the metric? In my job, I get drafts from junior employees that requires major revisions, often rewriting significant parts. It’s still faster to have someone take the first pass. Why can’t AI coding be used the same way? Especially if AIs are capable of following your own style and design choices, as well as testing code against a test suite, why isn’t it easier to start from a kind of working baseline than to rebuild from a raf h.
  - skydhash 8mo ago
    Dis you hire juniors just to get drafts? That seems pretty inneficient.
    - rayiner 8mo ago
      I'm a lawyer, so a bunch of work--factual analysis, legal research, etc.--goes into the draft that isn't just the words on the page. At the same time, the work product is meant to persuade human readers, so a lot of work goes into making the words on the page perfect. (Perhaps past the point of diminishing returns, but companies are willing to pay for that incremental edge when the stakes are high.) Programming is different in that you don't usually have senior engineers rewrite code written by junior engineers. On the other hand, look at how the Linux kernel is developed. You have Linus at the top, then subsystem maintainers vetting patches. The companies submitting patches presumably have layers of reviewers as well. Why couldn't you automate the lower layers of that process? Instead of having 5 junior people, maybe you have 2 somewhat more senior people leveraging AI. This is probably not sustainable unless the AI can eventually do the work the more senior people are doing. But that probably doesn't matter in the short term for the market.

by petcat 8mo ago

dude250711 8mo ago

> The person intentionally didn't put in much effort. Aren't you just describing every vibe code ever? To think about it, that is probably my main issue with AI art/books etc. They never put in any effort. In fact, even the competition is about putting least effort.

Gigachad 8mo ago

Seems like they did put in quite a bit of effort, but were not knowledgeable enough on wifi drivers to go further. So hardware drivers are not a solved problem where you can just ask chatgpt for a driver and it spits one out for you.

freeplay 8mo ago
If you could write drivers in javascript, it probably would have done just fine /s

slopinthebag 8mo ago

> The author specifically said that they did not read the code or even test the output very thoroughly. It was intentionally just a naive toy they wanted to play around with. Yes and that's what I'm pointing out, they vibe coded it and the headline is somewhat misleading, although it's not the authors fault if you don't go read the article before commenting. But it does have to do with AI (obviously), and specifically the capabilities of AI. If you need to be knowledgable about how wifi drivers work and put in effort to get a decent result, that obviously speaks volumes about the capabilities of the vibe coding approach.

petcat 8mo ago
I strongly suspect that somebody with domain knowledge around Wi-Fi drivers and OS kernel drivers could prompt the llm to spit out a lot more robust code than this guy was able to. That's not a knock on him, he was just trying to see what he could do. It's impressive what he actually accomplished given how little effort he put forth and how little knowledge he had about the subject.
- slopinthebag 8mo ago
  Someone with domain knowledge could also just write the code instead of trying to get the stochastic prediction machine to generate it. I thought the whole point was to allow people without said expertise to generate it. After all, that seems to be the promise.
  - garciasn 8mo ago
    Clearly there wasn't much appetite for someone to do that.
  - luckydata 8mo ago
    It will be like that at some point soon, just not now. Are you trying to make the point that because this technology is not yet perfect the fact that it can already do so much is unimpressive?
    - slopinthebag 8mo ago
      Will it happen before or after we get fusion energy? I heard that was coming soon too.
  - cortesoft 8mo ago
    > Someone with domain knowledge could also just write the code instead of trying to get the stochastic prediction machine to generate it. Well, people with the domain knowledge exist, yet they have not yet written this driver... why not? Because there is other code those experts want to write, and they don't have time to write it all... but what if they could just give a fairly straightforward prompt and have the LLM do it for them? And if it only took minor tweaks to the prompt to have it write drivers for all the myriad combinations of hardware and software? At that point, there might be enough time to write it all. Just because people exist that can DO all the work doesn't mean we have enough person-hours to do ALL the work.

acedTrex 8mo ago

> Nothing to do with AI, or even the capabilities of AI. The person intentionally didn't put in much effort. The part to do with AI is that it was not able to drive a comprehensive and bug free driver with minimal effort from the human. That is the point.

dangus 8mo ago
I’m not able to provide a comprehensive bug free driver.
rayiner 8mo ago
Why is that the metric? In my job, I get drafts from junior employees that requires major revisions, often rewriting significant parts. It’s still faster to have someone take the first pass. Why can’t AI coding be used the same way? Especially if AIs are capable of following your own style and design choices, as well as testing code against a test suite, why isn’t it easier to start from a kind of working baseline than to rebuild from a raf h.
- skydhash 8mo ago
  Dis you hire juniors just to get drafts? That seems pretty inneficient.
  - rayiner 8mo ago
    I'm a lawyer, so a bunch of work--factual analysis, legal research, etc.--goes into the draft that isn't just the words on the page. At the same time, the work product is meant to persuade human readers, so a lot of work goes into making the words on the page perfect. (Perhaps past the point of diminishing returns, but companies are willing to pay for that incremental edge when the stakes are high.) Programming is different in that you don't usually have senior engineers rewrite code written by junior engineers. On the other hand, look at how the Linux kernel is developed. You have Linus at the top, then subsystem maintainers vetting patches. The companies submitting patches presumably have layers of reviewers as well. Why couldn't you automate the lower layers of that process? Instead of having 5 junior people, maybe you have 2 somewhat more senior people leveraging AI. This is probably not sustainable unless the AI can eventually do the work the more senior people are doing. But that probably doesn't matter in the short term for the market.