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I get that this can make it possible for greater range for the same price, but what about the same range for lower price? If it weren't for the batteries, EVs w

I get that this can make it possible for greater range for the same price, but what about the same range for lower price? If it weren't for the batteries, EVs would be much cheaper than ICE vehicles. It stands to reason that if we can cut the battery cost while keeping range the same, we could greatly cut the cost of the EV in total. Maybe car companies don't want to do this because they'd rather price discriminate and get every last penny. It would be too bad though, since some people would happily upgrade cars more frequently if they weren't so outrageously expensive ($50k avg price for new vehicle transactions, IIRC).

orev 8mo ago
Car companies already alter fuel tank sizes to get a specific range, so it would stand to reason that they would do the same for batteries. It’s cheaper for them to use fewer materials.
- apparent 8mo ago
  Hope so! I have seen a few vehicles with higher capacity trims, so the real question is whether they'd shave $5k off the price of a vehicle and give it a quite-limited range (150 mile). Some people would be totally fine with that, especially as a second/third car. But it would somewhat complicate manufacturing and make it a little more confusing for consumers to know what they're getting. Perhaps this corner of the market will continue to be served by sellers of years-old EVs, which can have lousy range but work well otherwise.
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]
Tade0 8mo ago
Car manufacturers already offer different sizes of battery packs, but that doesn't affect the price that much.
- apparent 8mo ago
  Yeah I can't figure out why this is, exactly. If batteries are such a huge cost center, why can't I save a significant chunk of change by opting for a vehicle that has 100 or 200 miles less range?
  - johanvts 8mo ago
    You can? Going from the 84kwh ID3 to the 55 kwh saves you around 17%
    - apparent 8mo ago
      That's cool, are these available in the US?
      - johanvts 8mo ago
        I think only the ID 4 and up is, but it seems to be the same ballpark saving between the small and large battery version, ~20% cheaper. Idk if the US pricing is completely different, maybe they combine the battery with trim options that means you dont see this jump?
  - torginus 8mo ago
    I'm not quite up to date what LFP batteries cost nowadays, but I remember it's in the $70ish range - so for a respectable 80kWh, it'd only cost $5.6k out of the total. Considering you can get something like a new Corolla for $20k-ish, if the EV minus battery costs the same as a fully fledged ICE car, you could have a $25-27k car with a quite generous battery.
cmrdporcupine 8mo ago
"If it weren't for the batteries, EVs would be much cheaper than ICE vehicles." And yet I've watched as $/kWh for battery component prices is 1/3rd of what it was 8 years ago (when I got my Chevy Volt) but EV prices have not appreciably gone down.
- apparent 8mo ago
  Yeah I think this is a combination of greater range and the ceasing of EV subsidization. It would be nice if there were some options that had much less range than is now possible, at a substantial discount.
  - johanvts 8mo ago
    There are many smaller “city” evs hitting the market that offer this. Renault 5 and Hyundia Inster etc.
    - apparent 8mo ago
      Cool, hopefully won't be limited to physically small cars. Many people with medium-sized cars only go 30 miles/day regularly, and rarely need more than 100 miles of range. Most days I'm under 20, and 90% of the time I'm under 40.
      - rickydroll 8mo ago
        My Volt has only 50 miles of range, and, granted, working from home and not traveling much, I rarely run out of charge. However, that said, there are times, especially in the winter, when I really need to charge at my destination to keep the gas motor from turning on halfway home.
        cmrdporcupine 8mo ago
        Yeah this was my experience when I had one (I'd still have it but it got totaled in an accident). Another 20km - 30km of range would have been ideal. I used to drive 100km a day but that was only feasible on zero gas in the winter when I was able to charge on both ends.
rlpb 8mo ago
I got a much reduced price in return for much lower range simply by buying an older EV. What’s wrong with leaving the new car market to those willing to pay the higher price, and the second hand market to those who want a lower price? This has always worked for me. It transfers especially well to EVs since older EVs were typically sold with less range.

orev 8mo ago

Car companies already alter fuel tank sizes to get a specific range, so it would stand to reason that they would do the same for batteries. It’s cheaper for them to use fewer materials.

apparent 8mo ago
Hope so! I have seen a few vehicles with higher capacity trims, so the real question is whether they'd shave $5k off the price of a vehicle and give it a quite-limited range (150 mile). Some people would be totally fine with that, especially as a second/third car. But it would somewhat complicate manufacturing and make it a little more confusing for consumers to know what they're getting. Perhaps this corner of the market will continue to be served by sellers of years-old EVs, which can have lousy range but work well otherwise.
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]

Tade0 8mo ago

Car manufacturers already offer different sizes of battery packs, but that doesn't affect the price that much.

apparent 8mo ago
Yeah I can't figure out why this is, exactly. If batteries are such a huge cost center, why can't I save a significant chunk of change by opting for a vehicle that has 100 or 200 miles less range?
- johanvts 8mo ago
  You can? Going from the 84kwh ID3 to the 55 kwh saves you around 17%
  - apparent 8mo ago
    That's cool, are these available in the US?
    - johanvts 8mo ago
      I think only the ID 4 and up is, but it seems to be the same ballpark saving between the small and large battery version, ~20% cheaper. Idk if the US pricing is completely different, maybe they combine the battery with trim options that means you dont see this jump?
- torginus 8mo ago
  I'm not quite up to date what LFP batteries cost nowadays, but I remember it's in the $70ish range - so for a respectable 80kWh, it'd only cost $5.6k out of the total. Considering you can get something like a new Corolla for $20k-ish, if the EV minus battery costs the same as a fully fledged ICE car, you could have a $25-27k car with a quite generous battery.

cmrdporcupine 8mo ago

"If it weren't for the batteries, EVs would be much cheaper than ICE vehicles." And yet I've watched as $/kWh for battery component prices is 1/3rd of what it was 8 years ago (when I got my Chevy Volt) but EV prices have not appreciably gone down.

apparent 8mo ago
Yeah I think this is a combination of greater range and the ceasing of EV subsidization. It would be nice if there were some options that had much less range than is now possible, at a substantial discount.
- johanvts 8mo ago
  There are many smaller “city” evs hitting the market that offer this. Renault 5 and Hyundia Inster etc.
  - apparent 8mo ago
    Cool, hopefully won't be limited to physically small cars. Many people with medium-sized cars only go 30 miles/day regularly, and rarely need more than 100 miles of range. Most days I'm under 20, and 90% of the time I'm under 40.
    - rickydroll 8mo ago
      My Volt has only 50 miles of range, and, granted, working from home and not traveling much, I rarely run out of charge. However, that said, there are times, especially in the winter, when I really need to charge at my destination to keep the gas motor from turning on halfway home.
      - cmrdporcupine 8mo ago
        Yeah this was my experience when I had one (I'd still have it but it got totaled in an accident). Another 20km - 30km of range would have been ideal. I used to drive 100km a day but that was only feasible on zero gas in the winter when I was able to charge on both ends.

rlpb 8mo ago

I got a much reduced price in return for much lower range simply by buying an older EV. What’s wrong with leaving the new car market to those willing to pay the higher price, and the second hand market to those who want a lower price? This has always worked for me. It transfers especially well to EVs since older EVs were typically sold with less range.