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Social media is like tobacco. We went after tobacco for targeting kids, we should do the same to social media. Highly engineered addictive content is not unlike

by pokstad 8mo ago

Social media is like tobacco. We went after tobacco for targeting kids, we should do the same to social media. Highly engineered addictive content is not unlike what was done to cigarettes.

Gormo 8mo ago
No, it isn't. Tobacco is a physical substance that alters users' biochemistry and creates a physical dependence. Social media is information conveyed via a computing device. You can criticize social media for what it is in its own right, without having to engage in these kinds of disingenuous equivocations.
- bdangubic 8mo ago
  Comparing Tobacco to Social Media is like comparing me to LeBron James. I'd rather have my kid smoke a pack of day than have social media accounts
- csmcg 8mo ago
  the mechanisms by which that information is being conveyed have been shown to be addictive as well, no?
  - Gormo 8mo ago
    No, addiction involves physical substances interacting with a person's biochemistry. Attempting to extend the concept of addiction to include positive emotions brought on by sensory experiences or behavior is a disingenuous rhetorical tactic. It's simply not legitimate to redefine "addiction" as anything that people might have an emotional or psychological motivation to participate in. People trying to use the same terminology to describe social media as is used to describe tobacco or alcohol are trying to sneakily attach the negative associations of those substances to something unrelated entirely to them. This is a form of deception, and a silly one, since social media has lots of negative aspects that can be argued against in their own right, without needing to engage in manipulative dialog.
    - deleted 8mo ago
      [deleted]
    - foltik 8mo ago
      Whether you like it or not, addiction is most commonly used as a general term to refer to any sort of compulsive behavior that acts against one's own self interest. Not your strawman of "anything that people might have an emotional or psychological motivation to participate in." There are plenty of perfectly valid parallels between addiction to alcohol, gambling, porn, social media, junk food, etc. Are you denying that? You can't just declare anyone comparing them to be disingenuous or disrespectful to those who are addicted. In fact what really seems disingenuous is the huge volume of this kind of pedantry in the thread by you and the same few accounts. Feels like misdirection away from the actual discussion about how to truly mitigate these addictions. Would appreciate your actual thoughts on this.
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
- ozim 8mo ago
  Sounds like you need to read up on dopamine and addictions a bit more. Gambling isn’t introducing substance into user system it is making use of existing brain chemicals. Social media companies engineered every piece of addictive mechanisms from gambling to alter brain chemistry or reactions of users.
  - jajuuka 8mo ago
    You're blurring the lines a bit. Gambling isn't inherently an addiction. Just like a good TV show isn't inherently addictive either. Social media trying to be more engaging shouldn't really be viewed as an evil action anymore than HBO trying to create compelling content is. The problem with comparing social media use to tobacco is that they are completely different. It's like saying weed is just like heroin because they both make you feel good. It's reductive and not productive. The completely anti-social media stance ignores the good parts of social media. People can connect from across the planet and found others who shares the same views or experiences. People who are marginalized can find community where none may exist in their local area. So we should approach this more carefully and grounded.
    - Gigachad 8mo ago
      Nothing is inherently an addiction. You can smoke a cigarette without it being an addiction.
      - jajuuka 8mo ago
        I don't think I implied that. Of course, but the ability to regulate usage is hampered by nicotine. That does not mean one cigarette and you're addicted though.
      - Gormo 8mo ago
        No, nicotine is actually addictive in that it creates physical dependency.
    - tsimionescu 8mo ago
      You can make the point that social media has real positive benefits as well as negatives without minimizing the well proven fact that gambling creates a form of addiction in a significant proportion, though not all, of its users, one every bit as devastating as heroin or alcohol.
- pokstad 8mo ago
  You’re right, it’s actually worse than tobacco. Tobacco simply makes your body sick, but social media attacks the most vital part of us. Even the CDC has studied this: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/73/su/su7304a3.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/73/su/su7304a3.htm
  - Gormo 8mo ago
    This is a normative cultural question, not a medical one. The CDC is far outside its expertise and its proper remit by involving itself in this topic.
- fsflover 8mo ago
  Yes, it is: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24579498 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24579498
fuzzfactor 8mo ago
Yes, go after Facebook and their kind only, avoid collateral damage to the remaining regular old internet.

by pokstad 8mo ago

Social media is like tobacco. We went after tobacco for targeting kids, we should do the same to social media. Highly engineered addictive content is not unlike what was done to cigarettes.

Gormo 8mo ago

No, it isn't. Tobacco is a physical substance that alters users' biochemistry and creates a physical dependence. Social media is information conveyed via a computing device. You can criticize social media for what it is in its own right, without having to engage in these kinds of disingenuous equivocations.

bdangubic 8mo ago
Comparing Tobacco to Social Media is like comparing me to LeBron James. I'd rather have my kid smoke a pack of day than have social media accounts
csmcg 8mo ago
the mechanisms by which that information is being conveyed have been shown to be addictive as well, no?
- Gormo 8mo ago
  No, addiction involves physical substances interacting with a person's biochemistry. Attempting to extend the concept of addiction to include positive emotions brought on by sensory experiences or behavior is a disingenuous rhetorical tactic. It's simply not legitimate to redefine "addiction" as anything that people might have an emotional or psychological motivation to participate in. People trying to use the same terminology to describe social media as is used to describe tobacco or alcohol are trying to sneakily attach the negative associations of those substances to something unrelated entirely to them. This is a form of deception, and a silly one, since social media has lots of negative aspects that can be argued against in their own right, without needing to engage in manipulative dialog.
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]
  - foltik 8mo ago
    Whether you like it or not, addiction is most commonly used as a general term to refer to any sort of compulsive behavior that acts against one's own self interest. Not your strawman of "anything that people might have an emotional or psychological motivation to participate in." There are plenty of perfectly valid parallels between addiction to alcohol, gambling, porn, social media, junk food, etc. Are you denying that? You can't just declare anyone comparing them to be disingenuous or disrespectful to those who are addicted. In fact what really seems disingenuous is the huge volume of this kind of pedantry in the thread by you and the same few accounts. Feels like misdirection away from the actual discussion about how to truly mitigate these addictions. Would appreciate your actual thoughts on this.
deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
ozim 8mo ago
Sounds like you need to read up on dopamine and addictions a bit more. Gambling isn’t introducing substance into user system it is making use of existing brain chemicals. Social media companies engineered every piece of addictive mechanisms from gambling to alter brain chemistry or reactions of users.
- jajuuka 8mo ago
  You're blurring the lines a bit. Gambling isn't inherently an addiction. Just like a good TV show isn't inherently addictive either. Social media trying to be more engaging shouldn't really be viewed as an evil action anymore than HBO trying to create compelling content is. The problem with comparing social media use to tobacco is that they are completely different. It's like saying weed is just like heroin because they both make you feel good. It's reductive and not productive. The completely anti-social media stance ignores the good parts of social media. People can connect from across the planet and found others who shares the same views or experiences. People who are marginalized can find community where none may exist in their local area. So we should approach this more carefully and grounded.
  - Gigachad 8mo ago
    Nothing is inherently an addiction. You can smoke a cigarette without it being an addiction.
    - jajuuka 8mo ago
      I don't think I implied that. Of course, but the ability to regulate usage is hampered by nicotine. That does not mean one cigarette and you're addicted though.
    - Gormo 8mo ago
      No, nicotine is actually addictive in that it creates physical dependency.
  - tsimionescu 8mo ago
    You can make the point that social media has real positive benefits as well as negatives without minimizing the well proven fact that gambling creates a form of addiction in a significant proportion, though not all, of its users, one every bit as devastating as heroin or alcohol.
pokstad 8mo ago
You’re right, it’s actually worse than tobacco. Tobacco simply makes your body sick, but social media attacks the most vital part of us. Even the CDC has studied this: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/73/su/su7304a3.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/73/su/su7304a3.htm
- Gormo 8mo ago
  This is a normative cultural question, not a medical one. The CDC is far outside its expertise and its proper remit by involving itself in this topic.
fsflover 8mo ago
Yes, it is: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24579498 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24579498

fuzzfactor 8mo ago

Yes, go after Facebook and their kind only, avoid collateral damage to the remaining regular old internet.