4 ms·

I think the argument is more around it being illegal so as to not be forced into playing "the bad guy". It's hard to prevent a level of entitlement and resentme

I think the argument is more around it being illegal so as to not be forced into playing "the bad guy". It's hard to prevent a level of entitlement and resentment if those less well parented have full access. If nobody is allowed then there's no parental friction at all. Its unfortunate that the application of this rule is being performed at the software level via ad-hoc age verification as opposed to the device level (e.g. smartphones themselves). However that might require the rigimirole of the state forcibly confiscating smartphones from minors or worrying nepalise outcomes.

philipallstar 8mo ago
But it's not playing the bad guy. It's playing the good guy.
- Quarrelsome 8mo ago
  in the abstract but in the social of the home you have to be the bad guy. While good parents manage that, the bar is too high for society in general.
  - philipallstar 8mo ago
    The bar isn't that high at all. It's just what norms you decide to set. You could make this argument for any particular parenting decision, from washing hands before food to saying no to the next desired purchase. It doesn't make sense to special-case this. At some point you're setting rules, and it's not that difficult. Just don't buy the device.
    - Quarrelsome 8mo ago
      sorry but I feel like your standards are a bit higher than the average here. The bar is, and has to be extremely low, to hope for compliance.
      - philipallstar 8mo ago
        This isn't a compliance based exercise. You can achieve compliance by setting no rules.
- Gigachad 8mo ago
  From the perspective of the kids you are the bad guy.
JohnMakin 8mo ago
I'm saying hold parent's accountable for their children's online behavior and for their protection online, not companies (who want to profit off the kids, perverse incentive) or governments (who can barely be trusted to do this even if this was the only goal). For example if your kid starts making revenge CP of their classmates, and the parent could have reasonably mitigated or known about it, I think the parent absolutely should be held responsible. Don't punish the rest of the web for crappy parenting and crappy incentives by companies/govts.
- Quarrelsome 8mo ago
  > I'm saying hold parent's accountable for their children's online behavior and for their protection online You're saying the status quo and I think its fair to state you wouldn't intentionally design the status quo. Unless we have some wizard wheeze where we can easily arrest and detain or otherwise effectively punish parents without further reducing the quality of life for their children.
- evilantnie 8mo ago
  If we want parents to be accountable, then these platforms need to provide better tools to enable parents to do so. It is impossible to monitor the entirety of your child's behavior online through any of these platforms today. They are their own person, they make their own choices, and those choices are heavily influenced by a world the parents have increasingly less influence over, especially as they grow older. On the flip side, I do think we should also hold companies more accountable for this. We collectively prevented companies from advertising tobacco to minors through regulation with a pretty massive success rate. These companies know how harmful social media can be on youth, and there is little to no effective regulation around how children learn about these platforms and get enticed into them.
  - JohnMakin 8mo ago
    I do not disagree with any of this, I was hoping it was implied by my original comment that this would be necessary.
  - 8mo ago

philipallstar 8mo ago

But it's not playing the bad guy. It's playing the good guy.

Quarrelsome 8mo ago
in the abstract but in the social of the home you have to be the bad guy. While good parents manage that, the bar is too high for society in general.
- philipallstar 8mo ago
  The bar isn't that high at all. It's just what norms you decide to set. You could make this argument for any particular parenting decision, from washing hands before food to saying no to the next desired purchase. It doesn't make sense to special-case this. At some point you're setting rules, and it's not that difficult. Just don't buy the device.
  - Quarrelsome 8mo ago
    sorry but I feel like your standards are a bit higher than the average here. The bar is, and has to be extremely low, to hope for compliance.
    - philipallstar 8mo ago
      This isn't a compliance based exercise. You can achieve compliance by setting no rules.
Gigachad 8mo ago
From the perspective of the kids you are the bad guy.

JohnMakin 8mo ago

I'm saying hold parent's accountable for their children's online behavior and for their protection online, not companies (who want to profit off the kids, perverse incentive) or governments (who can barely be trusted to do this even if this was the only goal). For example if your kid starts making revenge CP of their classmates, and the parent could have reasonably mitigated or known about it, I think the parent absolutely should be held responsible. Don't punish the rest of the web for crappy parenting and crappy incentives by companies/govts.

Quarrelsome 8mo ago
> I'm saying hold parent's accountable for their children's online behavior and for their protection online You're saying the status quo and I think its fair to state you wouldn't intentionally design the status quo. Unless we have some wizard wheeze where we can easily arrest and detain or otherwise effectively punish parents without further reducing the quality of life for their children.
evilantnie 8mo ago
If we want parents to be accountable, then these platforms need to provide better tools to enable parents to do so. It is impossible to monitor the entirety of your child's behavior online through any of these platforms today. They are their own person, they make their own choices, and those choices are heavily influenced by a world the parents have increasingly less influence over, especially as they grow older. On the flip side, I do think we should also hold companies more accountable for this. We collectively prevented companies from advertising tobacco to minors through regulation with a pretty massive success rate. These companies know how harmful social media can be on youth, and there is little to no effective regulation around how children learn about these platforms and get enticed into them.
- JohnMakin 8mo ago
  I do not disagree with any of this, I was hoping it was implied by my original comment that this would be necessary.
- 8mo ago