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>Some observers present privacy-preserving age proofs involving a third party, such as the government, as a solution, but they inherit the same structural flaw:
by notTooFarGone 8mo ago
>Some observers present privacy-preserving age proofs involving a third party, such as the government, as a solution, but they inherit the same structural flaw: many users who are legally old enough to use a platform do not have government ID.
So there is absolutely no way to change that and give out IDs from the age of 14? You can already get an ID for children in Germany https://www.germany.info/us-de/service/reisepass-und-personalausweis/personalausweis-kinder-1216042 https://www.germany.info/us-de/service/reisepass-und-persona...
This is a problem that has to be solved by the government and not by private tech companies.
This is a lazy cop out to say "we have tried nothing and we are all out of ideas"
- logifail 8mo ago> This is a problem [..] (This is a genuine question) please could you describe the underlying problem that age verification is attempting to solve?
- crazypyro 8mo agoI don't think that's what the original comment was discussing at all... If governments want to require private companies to verify ages, those same governments need to provide accessible ways for their citizens to get verification documents, starting from the same age that is required.
- notTooFarGone 8mo agoNot my point in the comment but my personal opinion: To regulate access to addicting material. This is done in the physical world - why should digital be lawless when it applies to the same human behaviors? I've been addicted to a lot of digital media parts in harmful ways and I had the luck and support to grow out of most of it. A lot of people are not that lucky.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- meowface 8mo agoWhat problem? I don't think internet websites and apps actually need to know the face, age, or name of their users if their users don't want to provide that information. With exceptions for things like gambling websites.
- infotainment 8mo agoWhy should gambling be the exception? One could argue other app-based vices are just as bad, if not worse.
- meowface 8mo agoCrippling debt from unwise impulsive gambling by a teenager is probably worse than whatever occurs from a teenager scrolling Twitter all day. The latter may not be great, but eating potato chips all day also probably isn't, and I don't think the government should outlaw minors eating potato chips. Plus it's variable: some get positive, educational, pro-social, productive outcomes from social media and some don't. Gambling is always bad in the limit. A simple rule could probably be that if a website can make you lose over $200 of real money, it should probably require age verification. I don't see why other things should.
- swiftcoder 8mo ago> Crippling debt from unwise impulsive gambling by a teenager is probably worse than whatever occurs from a teenager scrolling Twitter all day. The cynic in me says that's not why governments want identity confirmation for gambling websites. It's so you can't dodge the taxman
- meowface 8mo agoThat's true. It's probably at least 50% the latter. And I don't really blame them.
- zenbowman 8mo agoExactly right. Also, better to be overly restrictive here given the well documented harms of social media on young minds. If the law stipulates that you must be 15 to obtain social media access, and most people don't get their IDs until 18, then most people will stay off social media for another three years: no big deal.
- Aerroon 8mo agoIt costs money. Getting an ID here costs about 5% of minimum wage if you order it online + travel (you still have to travel there for the photos and pickup). It costs even more if you apply in person. You could buy 19 gallons of milk for that money (80 liters).
- notTooFarGone 8mo agoSo do you buy an ID every month or can we depreciate that over 15 years?
- account42 8mo agoNot unless you are offering to front everyone that money for no interest.
- Seattle3503 8mo agoProviding every citizen an ID every X years at no cost does seem like good policy.
- Aerroon 8mo agoYou have to get a new one every 5 years.
- pixl97 8mo agoReally more so than money is the amount of time. Sitting at the DMV for half a day, and that is with an appointment, really sucks.
- iamnothere 8mo agoThe problem is not that we aren’t doing age verification, it’s that a group of authoritarians are trying to force mandatory implementation of age verification (and concomitant removal of anonymity). That’s the problem.
- Noaidi 8mo agoAnonymity is a myth. I am sure by now an LLM can figure out who you are and where you live by your HN posts alone.
- iamnothere 8mo agoDo it then
- Noaidi 8mo agoI nave never, and will never, use AI on my own accord.
- Noaidi 8mo agoHey, iamnothere, look at this! https://arxiv.org/abs/2602.16800 https://arxiv.org/abs/2602.16800 "We show that large language models can be used to perform at-scale deanonymization. With full Internet access, our agent can re-identify Hacker News users and Anthropic Interviewer participants at high precision, given pseudonymous online profiles and conversations alone, matching what would take hours for a dedicated human investigator. "
- Seattle3503 8mo agoIt seems like the solution is to provide an age verification mechanism with robust privacy protections. That way when we offer a solution that works for all of their states concerns, if they disagree with the privacy preserving approach we force them to say outright "I want to keep a record of every website you visit."
- summm 8mo ago
- fabian2k 8mo agoI'm not convinced age restrictions like this are a good idea. But yeah, the non-availability of IDs in the US is a self-inflicted problem. Another example where this plays a role are voter registration and ID requirements for voting in the US. It is entirely bizarre to me how these discussions just accept it as a law of nature that it's expensive and a lot of effort to get an ID. This is something that could be changed.
- pixl97 8mo agoYou may underestimate the levels of classism and racism in the US. Go on and bring up a conversation about it and you'll eventually get someone talking about how that would be socialism and we can't do that.
- bdangubic 8mo agoWhen one of the only two political parties does not want everyone to vote (cause they’d lose every election) you get what we got…
- triceratops 8mo agoI strongly oppose any form of "age verification" involving uploading your ID. That's just asking for a data breach. There are options that don't involve any ID uploads whatsoever.
- fabian2k 8mo agoThat's not what this user was talking about. For example, with a German ID you can provide proof that you are older than 18 without giving up any identifying information. I mean, nobody uses this system at the moment, but it does exist and it works.
- triceratops 8mo agoDoes the German ID system know what you are trying to access? Based on the requestor.
- co_king_5 8mo ago[dead]
- nicbou 8mo agoGerman immigrants can’t get an ID, sometimes for years