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The weirdest tech story in Finland right now. The founders have sketchy track records. They do a carefully managed social media build-up. There are credible ru

by pavlov 8mo ago

The weirdest tech story in Finland right now. The founders have sketchy track records. They do a carefully managed social media build-up. There are credible rumors that they’ve been simultaneously raising money by cold-calling moderately wealthy people around the country. (Finland has extremely little oversight for private fundraising; you can basically sell shares in your zero-revenue startup to grandma next door — as long as you’re careful about wording your claims as “projections”.) So lots of red flags. Everyone would love it to be real of course because it’s been a long since Finland’s tech scene had a global hit like Nokia and Supercell… And perhaps the Donut founders are counting on that mood.

hipsdontlie 8mo ago
It's disappointing that this merry band of serial scammers are tarnishing Finland's reputation.
- jusssi 8mo ago
  It's also a bit sus that someone creates an account just to bash them, when they themselves are already doing a great job to make it look like a scam.
- mrtksn 8mo ago
  Can you plase give more information about the scams(not opinions about scam but actual scams where he was exposed) this guy committed?
  - karmakurtisaani 8mo ago
    Who has the burden of proof here? This is absolutely a scam.
    - mrtksn 8mo ago
      Obviously those who claim to be a scam have the burden of proof. Guilty until proven innocent is not a thing, it’s the other way around.
      - karmakurtisaani 8mo ago
        I have this bridge.. it's for sale, interested?
      - szmarczak 8mo ago
        You have no idea how scams work, do you? Visit this website [1] by the CEO and tell me it's not a scam. Tell me there exists some magical algorithm, where I give you my money and you promise me to 2x it and give it back. Please do tell me that. [1] https://www.definancetechnologies.com/ https://www.definancetechnologies.com/
        mrtksn 8mo ago
        I don’t think you understand how startups work. In startups 2x isn’t enough, you usually expect 100x or 1000x returns. That’s the main idea behind investing: You give your money to someone who may have better use of it so you may get it back multiple but may also lose it. As for the website you linked it appears to be promoting a trading bot and I don’t see any promise of guaranteed 2x returns, which would have been a scam. Maybe I missed it, can you point it out?
        szmarczak 8mo ago
        No, I do know how they work. Normal startups close the second they become unprofitable because investors don't like losing money. Or find someone that's willing to pull your sinking ship up (a buyout). Also, if you intentionally lose investors' money, they have the right to sue you for damages. Losing hundreds of thousands of dollars is pretty normal in failing startups, but it's not like they don't have any value. There's a difference between a half-baked legitimate product and a snake oil. However, losing tens of millions of dollars is not normal. > guaranteed 2x returns, which would have been a scam They haven't written 2x, but they have promised profits (which is more than 1x): "Sit Back and Watch Your Wealth Grow". That's literally a Ponzi scheme. They're no Medallion Fund because if the algorithm was actually working they wouldn't need to attract people to get more money. Maybe you should get off HN from time to time and face a reality check.
doikor 8mo ago
The electric motorbike company (Verge Motorcycles) owned by the same people also has such bad accounting/paperwork that they could not find an auditor willing to give an opinion. https://yle.fi/a/74-20205916 https://yle.fi/a/74-20205916 (article in Finnish) "According to the auditor's report, no opinion was given on the company's financial statements because sufficient audit evidence was not available." The company claims to have a couple million in inventory but no system saying anything about what is in their inventory, 300k in revenue in Finland without any papertrail of it actually happening, 2.5 million in R&D without any explanation/papertrail on what it was spent on (salaries? materials? machines?), etc. Also the company has taken really expensive loans from family members of the leadership (12% interest which is way over the market rate).
- idontwantthis 8mo ago
  But the motorcycles do exist and use these batteries don’t they? Has no one bought one and torn it open yet?
  - Hamuko 8mo ago
    As far as I can tell, no solid-state TS Pro (the TS Pro itself is not an entirely new model and has been around for a couple of years) has been delivered to any customers yet. They're supposed to be delivered in Q1/26, so it shouldn't be too long if they intend to keep their promises. Although if you were to order one today, your bike wouldn't arrive until Q4/26 according to their website.
    - idontwantthis 8mo ago
      That will be the only thing to actually watch then. If they keep pushing that out then we will know it's a scam.
  - stetrain 8mo ago
    They said "Available Today" on January 4th but have said actually customer deliveries are planned for April. > “The first customer deliveries will probably take place in April. There are production-related issues, getting subcontractors involved. Starting production. A lot depends on the goods and officials.” Translated from: https://web.archive.org/web/20260204130446/https://www.kauppalehti.fi/uutiset/a/5460f06d-27b5-4c8e-bb7f-8fc03f5294f5 https://web.archive.org/web/20260204130446/https://www.kaupp...

by pavlov 8mo ago

hipsdontlie 8mo ago

It's disappointing that this merry band of serial scammers are tarnishing Finland's reputation.

jusssi 8mo ago
It's also a bit sus that someone creates an account just to bash them, when they themselves are already doing a great job to make it look like a scam.
mrtksn 8mo ago
Can you plase give more information about the scams(not opinions about scam but actual scams where he was exposed) this guy committed?
- karmakurtisaani 8mo ago
  Who has the burden of proof here? This is absolutely a scam.
  - mrtksn 8mo ago
    Obviously those who claim to be a scam have the burden of proof. Guilty until proven innocent is not a thing, it’s the other way around.
    - karmakurtisaani 8mo ago
      I have this bridge.. it's for sale, interested?
    - szmarczak 8mo ago
      You have no idea how scams work, do you? Visit this website [1] by the CEO and tell me it's not a scam. Tell me there exists some magical algorithm, where I give you my money and you promise me to 2x it and give it back. Please do tell me that. [1] https://www.definancetechnologies.com/ https://www.definancetechnologies.com/
      - mrtksn 8mo ago
        I don’t think you understand how startups work. In startups 2x isn’t enough, you usually expect 100x or 1000x returns. That’s the main idea behind investing: You give your money to someone who may have better use of it so you may get it back multiple but may also lose it. As for the website you linked it appears to be promoting a trading bot and I don’t see any promise of guaranteed 2x returns, which would have been a scam. Maybe I missed it, can you point it out?
        szmarczak 8mo ago
        No, I do know how they work. Normal startups close the second they become unprofitable because investors don't like losing money. Or find someone that's willing to pull your sinking ship up (a buyout). Also, if you intentionally lose investors' money, they have the right to sue you for damages. Losing hundreds of thousands of dollars is pretty normal in failing startups, but it's not like they don't have any value. There's a difference between a half-baked legitimate product and a snake oil. However, losing tens of millions of dollars is not normal. > guaranteed 2x returns, which would have been a scam They haven't written 2x, but they have promised profits (which is more than 1x): "Sit Back and Watch Your Wealth Grow". That's literally a Ponzi scheme. They're no Medallion Fund because if the algorithm was actually working they wouldn't need to attract people to get more money. Maybe you should get off HN from time to time and face a reality check.

doikor 8mo ago

The electric motorbike company (Verge Motorcycles) owned by the same people also has such bad accounting/paperwork that they could not find an auditor willing to give an opinion. https://yle.fi/a/74-20205916 https://yle.fi/a/74-20205916 (article in Finnish) "According to the auditor's report, no opinion was given on the company's financial statements because sufficient audit evidence was not available." The company claims to have a couple million in inventory but no system saying anything about what is in their inventory, 300k in revenue in Finland without any papertrail of it actually happening, 2.5 million in R&D without any explanation/papertrail on what it was spent on (salaries? materials? machines?), etc. Also the company has taken really expensive loans from family members of the leadership (12% interest which is way over the market rate).

idontwantthis 8mo ago
But the motorcycles do exist and use these batteries don’t they? Has no one bought one and torn it open yet?
- Hamuko 8mo ago
  As far as I can tell, no solid-state TS Pro (the TS Pro itself is not an entirely new model and has been around for a couple of years) has been delivered to any customers yet. They're supposed to be delivered in Q1/26, so it shouldn't be too long if they intend to keep their promises. Although if you were to order one today, your bike wouldn't arrive until Q4/26 according to their website.
  - idontwantthis 8mo ago
    That will be the only thing to actually watch then. If they keep pushing that out then we will know it's a scam.
- stetrain 8mo ago
  They said "Available Today" on January 4th but have said actually customer deliveries are planned for April. > “The first customer deliveries will probably take place in April. There are production-related issues, getting subcontractors involved. Starting production. A lot depends on the goods and officials.” Translated from: https://web.archive.org/web/20260204130446/https://www.kauppalehti.fi/uutiset/a/5460f06d-27b5-4c8e-bb7f-8fc03f5294f5 https://web.archive.org/web/20260204130446/https://www.kaupp...