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Apparently the first 3rd party test was on fast charging and the 3rd party is VTT, which is the government affiliated(owned?) "VTT Technical Research Centre of

by mrtksn 8mo ago

Apparently the first 3rd party test was on fast charging and the 3rd party is VTT, which is the government affiliated(owned?) "VTT Technical Research Centre of Finland" The people listed on this report appear to be on LinkedIn, so I guess it will be easy to confirm if the test document is authentic. The announcement of the test: https://youtu.be/d2QU_LpkSPs https://youtu.be/d2QU_LpkSPs Hopefully, soon we will find out if this seemingly "too good to be true" is a revolution or something else.

kevlened 8mo ago
> They also published the report here: https://pub-fee113bb711e441db5c353d2d31abbb3.r2.dev/VTT_CR_00092_26.pdf https://pub-fee113bb711e441db5c353d2d31abbb3.r2.dev/VTT_CR_0... That's the same link. Is there a way to attest that this is an official VTT report?
- mrtksn 8mo ago
  Sorry, I was trying to compose a post but I was a minute late so copy-pasted the content as a comment and forgot to adopt. Removing the redundant link. Thanks. BTW, the people who conducted the test appear to be on LinkedIn. I guess its pretty easy to confirm if the test on the company site is authentic.
- andor 8mo ago
  The PDF is digitally signed with a cert from the Finnish „Digital and Population Data Services Agency“
  - hipsdontlie 8mo ago
    Unfortunately that's not the same as VTT. VTT would be more like "National Institute of Scientific Research"
    - mrtksn 8mo ago
      It says its sign by this guy: https://www.vttresearch.com/en/news-and-ideas/petri-soderena-takes-lead-developing-transportation-research https://www.vttresearch.com/en/news-and-ideas/petri-soderena... He has an e-mail address and a phone number, I doubt that if the report is falsified it won't come out.
      - hipsdontlie 8mo ago
        I just found a video of the same guy selling some magical AGI thing 9 months ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilgJKjiDLV8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilgJKjiDLV8 Promising the moon and stars just like with Donut. Donut Labs also had a video presentation of some kind of automotive design software that also sounded too good to be true. This guy is a serial scammer.
        mrtksn 8mo ago
        Elon Musk sells self driving cars since 10 years that don't self drive but his cars are actually decent cars and his rockets are revolutionary. Also, who isn't selling magical AGI since the last 4 years? I think i will judge the battery and the magical AGI separately. The guy also sells magical motors that appear to be real with people riding motorbikes with those motors.
    - swongel 8mo ago
      Well there's this press release they would publish a report: https://www.vttresearch.com/en/news-and-ideas/donut-lab-commissioned-vtt-carry-out-battery-measurements-support-its-product https://www.vttresearch.com/en/news-and-ideas/donut-lab-comm... with as author the same name on the digital signature "Petri Söderena" for Organisation "Teknologian tutkimuskeskus VTT" and the chain is attested by "DVV Organisational Certificates - G4E" which is on the EU/EEA trusted list: https://eidas.ec.europa.eu/efda/trust-services/browse/eidas/tls/tl/FI/tsp/1/service/15 https://eidas.ec.europa.eu/efda/trust-services/browse/eidas/... (by name and key signature). Looks like a legit VTT document to me.
  - rmu09 8mo ago
    I think it is safe to assume, given the buzz all around the donut battery, that VTT would immediately release a statement if this report was fake. edit: https://www.vttresearch.com/en/news-and-ideas/donut-lab-commissioned-vtt-carry-out-battery-measurements-support-its-product https://www.vttresearch.com/en/news-and-ideas/donut-lab-comm...
- jusssi 8mo ago
  The person whose signature is on it, is listed on VTTs website with the same title. Considering the amount of publicity this thing gets, VTT or the person will publicly refute it pretty soon if it's a fake.
  - AnssiH 8mo ago
    Also, VTT had publicly confirmed earlier that they had conducted tests for Donut Lab. I'm confident the document and tests are real, but other shenanigans are still possible (and likely IMO).
vipulbhj 8mo ago
I’ve been digging into the data (using Gemini and a few other sources). The claims behind https://idonutbelieve.com/ https://idonutbelieve.com/ are pretty bold. I’d like to be optimistic, but I’m going to wait for more independent verification before drawing any conclusions.
- mrtksn 8mo ago
  I desperately want this to be real but LK-99 thought me to be skeptical of big announcements. AFAIK the Finnish media went brutal on them and science YouTubers reported some rumors about sketchy stuff but they seem to be rolling so far. VTT appear to be a solid institution, so we will find out soon I guess.
scoot 8mo ago
Fast charging, long life, low cost – pick two. Actually, there are a bunch of other variables (energy density, stability, discharge current, etc. etc.), so the probability of a technology that improves one significantly without negatively affecting at least one other is vanishingly small. Hence the number of overhyped battery technologies that get reported but never productised.
- rmu09 8mo ago
  They claim not only fast charging, long life and low cost, but also very high energy density, no degradation in low temperature, no thermal runaway, non-hazardous materials and no "geopolitical" needed.
patapong 8mo ago
Careful though, this test explicitly only tests the charge and discharge capabilities of the battery, not whether it's a solid state battery or not. According to ChatGPT, these results would in theory also be possible with a normal Li-ion battery. I am really hoping this is real though! And waiting for further tests.
- piyh 8mo ago
  FPV lipo batteries can charge at 5c all day, you might be able to get away with 11c for a few charges before degradation or becoming spicy. Agree that this proves nothing useful.
doikor 8mo ago
> Apparently the first 3rd party test was on fast charging and the 3rd party is VTT, which is the government affiliated(owned?) "VTT Technical Research Centre of Finland" It is a govenrment owned non-profit company. As one of its services it will independently verify your product/invention/whatever works as claimed (for a bunch of money). https://www.vttresearch.com/en https://www.vttresearch.com/en

by mrtksn 8mo ago

kevlened 8mo ago

> They also published the report here: https://pub-fee113bb711e441db5c353d2d31abbb3.r2.dev/VTT_CR_00092_26.pdf https://pub-fee113bb711e441db5c353d2d31abbb3.r2.dev/VTT_CR_0... That's the same link. Is there a way to attest that this is an official VTT report?

mrtksn 8mo ago
Sorry, I was trying to compose a post but I was a minute late so copy-pasted the content as a comment and forgot to adopt. Removing the redundant link. Thanks. BTW, the people who conducted the test appear to be on LinkedIn. I guess its pretty easy to confirm if the test on the company site is authentic.
andor 8mo ago
The PDF is digitally signed with a cert from the Finnish „Digital and Population Data Services Agency“
- hipsdontlie 8mo ago
  Unfortunately that's not the same as VTT. VTT would be more like "National Institute of Scientific Research"
  - mrtksn 8mo ago
    It says its sign by this guy: https://www.vttresearch.com/en/news-and-ideas/petri-soderena-takes-lead-developing-transportation-research https://www.vttresearch.com/en/news-and-ideas/petri-soderena... He has an e-mail address and a phone number, I doubt that if the report is falsified it won't come out.
    - hipsdontlie 8mo ago
      I just found a video of the same guy selling some magical AGI thing 9 months ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilgJKjiDLV8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilgJKjiDLV8 Promising the moon and stars just like with Donut. Donut Labs also had a video presentation of some kind of automotive design software that also sounded too good to be true. This guy is a serial scammer.
      - mrtksn 8mo ago
        Elon Musk sells self driving cars since 10 years that don't self drive but his cars are actually decent cars and his rockets are revolutionary. Also, who isn't selling magical AGI since the last 4 years? I think i will judge the battery and the magical AGI separately. The guy also sells magical motors that appear to be real with people riding motorbikes with those motors.
  - swongel 8mo ago
    Well there's this press release they would publish a report: https://www.vttresearch.com/en/news-and-ideas/donut-lab-commissioned-vtt-carry-out-battery-measurements-support-its-product https://www.vttresearch.com/en/news-and-ideas/donut-lab-comm... with as author the same name on the digital signature "Petri Söderena" for Organisation "Teknologian tutkimuskeskus VTT" and the chain is attested by "DVV Organisational Certificates - G4E" which is on the EU/EEA trusted list: https://eidas.ec.europa.eu/efda/trust-services/browse/eidas/tls/tl/FI/tsp/1/service/15 https://eidas.ec.europa.eu/efda/trust-services/browse/eidas/... (by name and key signature). Looks like a legit VTT document to me.
- rmu09 8mo ago
  I think it is safe to assume, given the buzz all around the donut battery, that VTT would immediately release a statement if this report was fake. edit: https://www.vttresearch.com/en/news-and-ideas/donut-lab-commissioned-vtt-carry-out-battery-measurements-support-its-product https://www.vttresearch.com/en/news-and-ideas/donut-lab-comm...
jusssi 8mo ago
The person whose signature is on it, is listed on VTTs website with the same title. Considering the amount of publicity this thing gets, VTT or the person will publicly refute it pretty soon if it's a fake.
- AnssiH 8mo ago
  Also, VTT had publicly confirmed earlier that they had conducted tests for Donut Lab. I'm confident the document and tests are real, but other shenanigans are still possible (and likely IMO).

vipulbhj 8mo ago

I’ve been digging into the data (using Gemini and a few other sources). The claims behind https://idonutbelieve.com/ https://idonutbelieve.com/ are pretty bold. I’d like to be optimistic, but I’m going to wait for more independent verification before drawing any conclusions.

mrtksn 8mo ago
I desperately want this to be real but LK-99 thought me to be skeptical of big announcements. AFAIK the Finnish media went brutal on them and science YouTubers reported some rumors about sketchy stuff but they seem to be rolling so far. VTT appear to be a solid institution, so we will find out soon I guess.

scoot 8mo ago

Fast charging, long life, low cost – pick two. Actually, there are a bunch of other variables (energy density, stability, discharge current, etc. etc.), so the probability of a technology that improves one significantly without negatively affecting at least one other is vanishingly small. Hence the number of overhyped battery technologies that get reported but never productised.

rmu09 8mo ago
They claim not only fast charging, long life and low cost, but also very high energy density, no degradation in low temperature, no thermal runaway, non-hazardous materials and no "geopolitical" needed.

patapong 8mo ago

Careful though, this test explicitly only tests the charge and discharge capabilities of the battery, not whether it's a solid state battery or not. According to ChatGPT, these results would in theory also be possible with a normal Li-ion battery. I am really hoping this is real though! And waiting for further tests.

piyh 8mo ago
FPV lipo batteries can charge at 5c all day, you might be able to get away with 11c for a few charges before degradation or becoming spicy. Agree that this proves nothing useful.

doikor 8mo ago

> Apparently the first 3rd party test was on fast charging and the 3rd party is VTT, which is the government affiliated(owned?) "VTT Technical Research Centre of Finland" It is a govenrment owned non-profit company. As one of its services it will independently verify your product/invention/whatever works as claimed (for a bunch of money). https://www.vttresearch.com/en https://www.vttresearch.com/en