8 ms·

VTT Test Donut Lab Battery Reaches 80% Charge in Under 10 Minutes [pdf]

114 points by sagyam 7mo ago

interstice 7mo ago
Would be nice if they added some more detail about the battery like dimensions and weight, or did I miss that part.
- dagurp 7mo ago
  You can take a look at the announcement video https://youtu.be/Y-aPS2AwMbc?si=RD4Ja8tJggLPgXGj https://youtu.be/Y-aPS2AwMbc?si=RD4Ja8tJggLPgXGj
  - coffeebeqn 7mo ago
    The pdf also has a picture of it where you could possibly reverse Engineer the dimensions based on the other things in the picture. Looks very flat like an iPad battery
    - Tommix11 7mo ago
      As understand it the battery is 26 Ah and looks to be the size of my 20 mAh powerpack at home.
- mrtksn 7mo ago
  That was previously announced and CES and was described as "can be any shape and any size and any voltage within a reason".
- ghm2180 7mo ago
  It seems From the video they don't look much bigger than a cellphone.
mrtksn 7mo ago
Apparently the first 3rd party test was on fast charging and the 3rd party is VTT, which is the government affiliated(owned?) "VTT Technical Research Centre of Finland" The people listed on this report appear to be on LinkedIn, so I guess it will be easy to confirm if the test document is authentic. The announcement of the test: https://youtu.be/d2QU_LpkSPs https://youtu.be/d2QU_LpkSPs Hopefully, soon we will find out if this seemingly "too good to be true" is a revolution or something else.
- kevlened 7mo ago
  > They also published the report here: https://pub-fee113bb711e441db5c353d2d31abbb3.r2.dev/VTT_CR_00092_26.pdf https://pub-fee113bb711e441db5c353d2d31abbb3.r2.dev/VTT_CR_0... That's the same link. Is there a way to attest that this is an official VTT report?
  - mrtksn 7mo ago
    Sorry, I was trying to compose a post but I was a minute late so copy-pasted the content as a comment and forgot to adopt. Removing the redundant link. Thanks. BTW, the people who conducted the test appear to be on LinkedIn. I guess its pretty easy to confirm if the test on the company site is authentic.
  - andor 7mo ago
    The PDF is digitally signed with a cert from the Finnish „Digital and Population Data Services Agency“
    - hipsdontlie 7mo ago
      Unfortunately that's not the same as VTT. VTT would be more like "National Institute of Scientific Research"
      - mrtksn 7mo ago
        It says its sign by this guy: https://www.vttresearch.com/en/news-and-ideas/petri-soderena-takes-lead-developing-transportation-research https://www.vttresearch.com/en/news-and-ideas/petri-soderena... He has an e-mail address and a phone number, I doubt that if the report is falsified it won't come out.
xienze 7mo ago
Fairly important bit here at the end: > This project included independent charging performance tests on the energy storage devices supplied by the customer, which the customer identified as solid-state battery cells. > which the customer identified as solid-state battery cells.
- make_it_sure 7mo ago
  why?
  - xienze 7mo ago
    Because that's not independent verification that the device tested actually _is_ a solid state battery. Just that whatever was tested had certain charging characteristics.
    - taneq 7mo ago
      Tbh the exciting part isn’t so much the composition but whether it can actually meet the claimed performance. It could be made of wet gym socks for all I care if it can do 100k charge cycles at 90degC with comparable energy density and specific power to LiFePO.
      - xienze 7mo ago
        But that’s the point I’m making. You’re taking the claims that Donut Labs is making about it being a new type of battery at face value. Having someone verify charging characteristics isn’t that helpful without simultaneously verifying that the battery actually is what they’re claiming.
        audunw 7mo ago
        How is he taking it at face value? He’s saying it doesn’t matter. Which it really doesn’t. The reason solid state is exciting is the promised high energy density, and in some cases better safety. We shouldn’t care if it’s really “solid state” or not. That’s just marketing fluff. It doesn’t even really have a good definition as some chemistries are somewhere in between (sometimes described as semi-solid state). This test confirms the charging speed and basically confirms the energy density (estimates people have done based on the video/report put it in the ballpark of what’s claimed) You and I should really not demand a test that it’s actually solid state. That just doesn’t matter. We need energy density tests, cycle life tests, puncture tests, etc. If all those specifications are confirmed, whether it’s solid state or not becomes completely moot. And in the end what truly matters is if it can be mass manufactured at low cost, which can’t be tested anyway. All these social media demands for tests are kind of ridiculous, since the only thing publishing the tests does is give Donut more PR. They’re basically laughing all the way to the bank considering how easy it has been to manipulate YouTube, Reddit and HackerNews into giving them free press. We will have another round in a week when the next test is published. I’m honestly impressed. Personally I reserve all judgement until the promised bikes are on the road and torn down by third parties.
mech998877 7mo ago
The massive amount of production-oriented research in solid state and semi solid state batteries indicates to me that this stuff is coming soon in a big way. I've been curious about buying an electric car recently, and if I buy one right now it would only be a used one, don't want to fully invest in something about to be obselete.
- fhdkweig 7mo ago
  I make the same argument when I buy a computer. If I just wait a little longer, there will be a faster cheaper version of what I can buy today. When buying anything that depreciates, the best strategy is to wait (possibly forever) and only buy when you really need it now.
  - yomismoaqui 7mo ago
    Until you wait too much and end in a RAM shortage period due to AI...
    - fhdkweig 7mo ago
      My limited understanding of RAM prices are that they are very cyclical. Very expensive followed by very cheap. You just have to be willing to wait.
      - yomismoaqui 7mo ago
        I hope you are right, but maybe this one is not like the previous ones. Micron leaving consumer market sounds like the real money will be on the AI hardware market. Personally I bought my new laptop a month ago. Let's hope when I have to buy the next one this craziness will be history.
- zemvpferreira 7mo ago
  “Soon” is likely 5-10 years easily though.
- stetrain 7mo ago
sagyam 7mo ago
First report for Donut lab battery is out. Here is the TLDR Specs 26 Ah nominal capacity at 1C discharge rate 94 Wh nominal energy with 3.6V nominal voltage Operates within 2.7V – 4.15V recommended range (max charging to 4.3V) What was verified 5C charging (130A): 0-80% in ~9.5 minutes, 0-100% in ~13.5 minutes 11C charging (286A): 0-80% in ~4.9 minutes, 0-100% in ~7.3 minutes Successfully delivered 98.4-99.6% of charged capacity even after extreme 11C charging Thermal Management Tested with both one-sided and two-sided heat sinks to simulate real-world conditions With dual heat sinks: Peak temps of 47°C (5C) and 63°C (11C) — well within safe limits With single heat sink: Reached 61.5°C (5C) and up to 89°C (11C) — still functional but approaching thermal limit Missing claims Energy density: No weight and volume was mentioned Cycle life: VTT ran only 7 test cycles total. Cost Claims: Nothing about cost is mentioned Material Claims: No chemical analysis or materials analysis. Extreme Temperature Performance: No cold weather testing. No high-temperature testing. No abuse testing: No nail penetration, no overcharge, no short-circuit, no crush tests. But according to the company website another report will drop next monday (March 2nd).
- taneq 7mo ago
  It’s good to know that it does at least perform about as well as current conventional batteries. The energy density and cycle life were the really off-the-wall claims. It’s exciting to hear that they’re continuing to test, can’t wait for more third party results! Edit: Reading the report, they talk about “charge capacity” (Amp hours in/out) efficiency of 98.4% to 99.6%, but this seems potentially misleading. The actual charge energy efficiency is more like 90%. > Successfully delivered 98.4-99.6% of charged capacity even after extreme 11C charging Note the Wh numbers for discharge vs. charge energy. > Discharge capacity Charge capacity Discharge energy Charge energy > Cycle 1 26.109 Ah 26.159 Ah 91.021 Wh 100.793 Wh
  - cogman10 7mo ago
    Yup, those 2 are the ones I really want to see. The energy density isn't out of line if this is a true solid state battery. The cycle life, though, is AFAIK. I don't believe solid states have that sort of cycle life.
hipsdontlie 7mo ago
Here's the CEO Marko Lehtimäki selling his magic AGI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilgJKjiDLV8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilgJKjiDLV8 :D He's been a busy beaver!
- skrebbel 7mo ago
  Srsly. So it's all bogus then?
  - hipsdontlie 7mo ago
    Yep, so it seems!
    - karmakurtisaani 7mo ago
      Definitely a scam.
- patapong 7mo ago
  Thank you for sharing this, relevant context...
- mrtksn 7mo ago
  I don't know about that, the last 4 years everyone is selling magical AI and AGI is around the corner. Including every single top 10 rich people. Was this AI proven to be any more fake Than Sam Altman, Elon Musk or Dario Amodei's one? Did he took similar level of money and delivered less than the promised? What's the scam exactly? They don't seem to claim AGI anyway, they say Artificial Super intelligence which is like every AI company claim. You seem to be on a mission against this CEO, maybe you can clarify a bit more about the scams you believe he is committing?
  - vardump 7mo ago
    ASI is one step higher than AGI.
pavlov 7mo ago
The weirdest tech story in Finland right now. The founders have sketchy track records. They do a carefully managed social media build-up. There are credible rumors that they’ve been simultaneously raising money by cold-calling moderately wealthy people around the country. (Finland has extremely little oversight for private fundraising; you can basically sell shares in your zero-revenue startup to grandma next door — as long as you’re careful about wording your claims as “projections”.) So lots of red flags. Everyone would love it to be real of course because it’s been a long since Finland’s tech scene had a global hit like Nokia and Supercell… And perhaps the Donut founders are counting on that mood.
- hipsdontlie 7mo ago
  It's disappointing that this merry band of serial scammers are tarnishing Finland's reputation.
  - jusssi 7mo ago
    It's also a bit sus that someone creates an account just to bash them, when they themselves are already doing a great job to make it look like a scam.
  - mrtksn 7mo ago
    Can you plase give more information about the scams(not opinions about scam but actual scams where he was exposed) this guy committed?
    - karmakurtisaani 7mo ago
      Who has the burden of proof here? This is absolutely a scam.
      - mrtksn 7mo ago
        Obviously those who claim to be a scam have the burden of proof. Guilty until proven innocent is not a thing, it’s the other way around.
bmvw 7mo ago
Good to have a VTT report confirming the charging speeds, but the actual differentiator would be the energy density I guess, given that BYD has already proven <10min charging with an LFP battery in an actual car. (https://volta.foundation/battery-report-2025/ https://volta.foundation/battery-report-2025/ pg. 161)
- donny2018 7mo ago
  >BYD has already proven <10min BYD needs to be heavily liquid cooled/thermally managed to achieve that. The Donut battery only had metal heat sink on two or even one side - and its performance was even higher at high temperatures. LFP doesn't behave like that, I think?
  - bmvw 7mo ago
    Agree, didn't notice that at first in the results, it would potentially allow for less thermal management and even more density at pack level. Curious to see if VTT will also publish a report on the cycles.
Dockson 7mo ago
This doesn't really follow the usual battery scam pattern, does it? Like, EEStor or Nikola with big claims, timelines pushed years out, raise a ton of money, delay forever. Donut announced at CES and said bikes ship Q1 2026 which is weeks from now. They've raised ~€25M total (QuantumScape has burned through $1.5B+). And apparently they're not doing a big fundraise right now either. If it's a scam it seems like a really bad strategy? You're basically setting a timer on your own credibility. I've been reading around and the thing I keep landing on is the Nordic Nano connection. They're a Finnish nanotech company Donut invested in, and they published specs for a "bipolar electrostatic capacitor" with basically identical numbers - 400 Wh/kg, 100k cycles, fireproof. Does anyone with more battery knowledge know if this could be some kind of supercapacitor hybrid being marketed as a solid-state battery? The VTT report confirms fast charging works but doesn't say anything about energy density, cycle life, or what this thing actually is. Seems like the energy density and cycle life reports (supposedly coming in the next few weeks) are going to be way more interesting than this one.
- Hamuko 7mo ago
  Yeah, if it's a scam, at least we don't have to worry about it for too long. If we don't have third-party test results and/or the bikes in testers' hands in the next 37 days, then we can be pretty sure that it's just bogus.
- skrebbel 7mo ago
  I really want this to be true, but the founder launching AGI 9 months ago doesn't help their credibility a lot. And drip-marketing test results seems like a super weird thing to do, whether it's real or it's not. Don't forget that a lot of scams aren't initially on purpose. Eg Theranos by all accounts very gradually morphed from a mild "fake it till you make it" scheme (mild by Silicon Valley standards at least) into a full-blown scam over years of growth and funding, the lies needing to be deeper and deeper over time to cover up the earlier ones. I guess all I'm trying to say is the fact that it's a bad strategy for a scam, doesn't really mean it's not a scam. Those Verge motorcycles appear to actually exist and work though, so that's a data point in favour of this being real.
  - 7mo ago
etyhhgfff 7mo ago
The URL seems a bit dubious.
- vardump 7mo ago
  The PDF itself is signed.
WarmWash 7mo ago
Let me clear some things up as I have experience with places like VTT (but not VTT specifically) in my career. VTT is a company that you pay to run tests for you. You bring them a product, tell them what tests you need done, and then they do them with honesty and expensive well calibrated gear. Frequently you also send engineers along with your product to provide on the spot support for the testing. It's very likely it was a Donut engineer who setup the cell, attached the heatsinks, adjusted the connections, etc. This is pretty standard, VTT just runs verified tests, they're not experts on your product. Then they give you an official honest report recapping the tests done and the results. VTT is not an auditor for verifying claims, at least beyond the scope of the test you task them to do. They are a friendly business partner that you pay large amounts of money to for getting you verified tests done on your product. I really cannot stress enough that VTT is not in it to disprove anything. It's incredibly suspect that in a battery capacity test, Donut did not have VTT verify cell weight or dimension. It's also important to understand that VTT would not request to do this either, because VTT just runs the tests you pay them to, as you tell them to do it. So if donut shows up with a different cell for each test, VTT would not skip a beat, because they are not auditing, they are just doing the tests they are paid to do. Normally places like VTT thrive on compliance testing, where a regulation outlays the tests needed to be passed, and VTT provides the service of being the third party to run and sign off on those tests. Those tests are then submitted to the regulating body and they are the ones who pass/fail you, not VTT. They just do tests and collect money. So Donut is writing their own "regulations" here, so they are just having VTT do whatever tests they want as they want them done. The real test would be someone not affliated with donut taking one of these cells to VTT.
- jlhawn 7mo ago
  > It's incredibly suspect that in a battery capacity test ... They would probably say this is because it's not a "battery capacity test" but a "charge performance test" But I agree, when they eventually do have VTT perform a capacity test, how can we be sure that it's the same cell from the charge performance test?
  - verdverm 7mo ago
    > how can we be sure that it's the same cell from the charge performance test? I would imagine they will run the same tests again. Light testing for specific things during development or scaling, increased testing as you feel more confident in the product.
susarn 7mo ago
[flagged]
luka 7mo ago
To clarify some misconceptions regarding what they do and don't have in their current motorcycles, as of Feb 2026: All of current existing Verge motorcycles have a "traditional" lithium ion ~20kWh battery pack[0], very much on par with competition in all specs. They do exist and a few indeed appear to be in owners' hands (according to Facebook Verge fangroup posts and pics), and they can be test ridden. One of their showrooms is in Valley Fair in San Jose, CA. I have tested one of them. It feels and seems to perform well, as advertized and as physics allow, despite the hubless engine and skepticism around that. However, the test ride was ~30 minutes and there's so few of those bikes out there, that there's virtually no data on longevity. What currently does not exist is a Verge motorcycle with the battery that they claim to be testing here. They have announced that all their offerings will feature their solid state battery later this year, increasing the energy capacity to ~30kWh. That remains to be seen. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20260223173926/https://www.vergemotorcycles.com/battery-information/ https://web.archive.org/web/20260223173926/https://www.verge...
archeopetrix 7mo ago
Apart from metrics like energy density and cycle life, shouldn't we also consider idle self-discharge rate or charged-state longevity when evaluating batteries? No one seems to be talking about that in this case.
Animats 7mo ago
It's nice that they have what they claim is a solid state battery. But having a small prototype isn't that big a deal at this point. All the major players have prototype solid state batteries that work. Nobody has volume production yet, and volume production seems to be hard and expensive, according to CATL and Samsung. Mercedes has a test car with a solid state battery.[1] The battery is from Factorial Energy. There's only one such car, and they don't say how much it cost to make the prototype battery. Ducati has a test motorcycle with a solid state battery.[2] The battery is from QuantumScape. There's only one such motorcycle. Here's Fraunhofer IKTS making a solid state battery at lab scale.[3] The whole process is shown. Huge amount of effort to make one coin cell. Samsung prototype.[4] Samsung has been talking about shipping tiny solid state batteries for wearables in 2026. Still too expensive for cell phones, which gives a sense of cost. All the serious players can make a prototype by now. But the chemistry that's used for the prototypes may not be suitable for production. They have to balance capacity, weight, charge time, cycle life, manufacturing cost, and materials cost. (Samsung made a battery with a substantial silver content. It works, but that's not going to be a volume product) These problems will be overcome, because throwing money at them works. The history of the tungsten-filament light bulb is worth reviewing. Making fine tungsten wire is very difficult. From 1913 to 2010, a huge plant in Euclid, Ohio, made most of the tungsten wire for light bulbs. There were a lot of process steps.[5] [1] https://electrek.co/2025/02/24/mercedes-tests-first-solid-state-battery-ev-with-621-miles-range/ https://electrek.co/2025/02/24/mercedes-tests-first-solid-st... [2] https://www.ducati.com/ww/en/news/ducati-s-electric-research-continues-with-the-v21l-prototype-and-solid-state-batteries https://www.ducati.com/ww/en/news/ducati-s-electric-research... [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5SVrp8N-1M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5SVrp8N-1M [4] https://news.samsungsdi.com/global/articleView?seq=203 https://news.samsungsdi.com/global/articleView?seq=203 [5] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuhapGSexyg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuhapGSexyg
- Tuna-Fish 7mo ago
  Precisely. People are questioning the wrong things, I find it really easy to believe that Donut has a 400Wh/kg battery that can do 11C charging. Because that's something that can be easily externally verified, and they are sending that battery out to testers, and also because the existence of such a battery isn't new or shocking, many labs have prototypes in roughly the same performance envelope. But that doesn't mean they have a winner, if the battery was ridiculously expensive to make. Their claims about cost are much more suspicious, and they have shown no proof about them.
ChrisArchitect 7mo ago
Earlier source site: https://idonutbelieve.com/#third-party-evidence https://idonutbelieve.com/#third-party-evidence (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47121442 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47121442)
deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]
mrtksn 7mo ago
Ziroth, an engineering YouTuber who pursued academic career in the related fields believe that this must be high end lithium cell due to the characteristic similarities: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H45HXs4xXfA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H45HXs4xXfA

114 points by sagyam 7mo ago

interstice 7mo ago

Would be nice if they added some more detail about the battery like dimensions and weight, or did I miss that part.

dagurp 7mo ago
You can take a look at the announcement video https://youtu.be/Y-aPS2AwMbc?si=RD4Ja8tJggLPgXGj https://youtu.be/Y-aPS2AwMbc?si=RD4Ja8tJggLPgXGj
- coffeebeqn 7mo ago
  The pdf also has a picture of it where you could possibly reverse Engineer the dimensions based on the other things in the picture. Looks very flat like an iPad battery
  - Tommix11 7mo ago
    As understand it the battery is 26 Ah and looks to be the size of my 20 mAh powerpack at home.
mrtksn 7mo ago
That was previously announced and CES and was described as "can be any shape and any size and any voltage within a reason".
ghm2180 7mo ago
It seems From the video they don't look much bigger than a cellphone.

mrtksn 7mo ago

Apparently the first 3rd party test was on fast charging and the 3rd party is VTT, which is the government affiliated(owned?) "VTT Technical Research Centre of Finland" The people listed on this report appear to be on LinkedIn, so I guess it will be easy to confirm if the test document is authentic. The announcement of the test: https://youtu.be/d2QU_LpkSPs https://youtu.be/d2QU_LpkSPs Hopefully, soon we will find out if this seemingly "too good to be true" is a revolution or something else.

kevlened 7mo ago
> They also published the report here: https://pub-fee113bb711e441db5c353d2d31abbb3.r2.dev/VTT_CR_00092_26.pdf https://pub-fee113bb711e441db5c353d2d31abbb3.r2.dev/VTT_CR_0... That's the same link. Is there a way to attest that this is an official VTT report?
- mrtksn 7mo ago
  Sorry, I was trying to compose a post but I was a minute late so copy-pasted the content as a comment and forgot to adopt. Removing the redundant link. Thanks. BTW, the people who conducted the test appear to be on LinkedIn. I guess its pretty easy to confirm if the test on the company site is authentic.
- andor 7mo ago
  The PDF is digitally signed with a cert from the Finnish „Digital and Population Data Services Agency“
  - hipsdontlie 7mo ago
    Unfortunately that's not the same as VTT. VTT would be more like "National Institute of Scientific Research"
    - mrtksn 7mo ago
      It says its sign by this guy: https://www.vttresearch.com/en/news-and-ideas/petri-soderena-takes-lead-developing-transportation-research https://www.vttresearch.com/en/news-and-ideas/petri-soderena... He has an e-mail address and a phone number, I doubt that if the report is falsified it won't come out.

xienze 7mo ago

Fairly important bit here at the end: > This project included independent charging performance tests on the energy storage devices supplied by the customer, which the customer identified as solid-state battery cells. > which the customer identified as solid-state battery cells.

make_it_sure 7mo ago
why?
- xienze 7mo ago
  Because that's not independent verification that the device tested actually _is_ a solid state battery. Just that whatever was tested had certain charging characteristics.
  - taneq 7mo ago
    Tbh the exciting part isn’t so much the composition but whether it can actually meet the claimed performance. It could be made of wet gym socks for all I care if it can do 100k charge cycles at 90degC with comparable energy density and specific power to LiFePO.
    - xienze 7mo ago
      But that’s the point I’m making. You’re taking the claims that Donut Labs is making about it being a new type of battery at face value. Having someone verify charging characteristics isn’t that helpful without simultaneously verifying that the battery actually is what they’re claiming.
      - audunw 7mo ago
        How is he taking it at face value? He’s saying it doesn’t matter. Which it really doesn’t. The reason solid state is exciting is the promised high energy density, and in some cases better safety. We shouldn’t care if it’s really “solid state” or not. That’s just marketing fluff. It doesn’t even really have a good definition as some chemistries are somewhere in between (sometimes described as semi-solid state). This test confirms the charging speed and basically confirms the energy density (estimates people have done based on the video/report put it in the ballpark of what’s claimed) You and I should really not demand a test that it’s actually solid state. That just doesn’t matter. We need energy density tests, cycle life tests, puncture tests, etc. If all those specifications are confirmed, whether it’s solid state or not becomes completely moot. And in the end what truly matters is if it can be mass manufactured at low cost, which can’t be tested anyway. All these social media demands for tests are kind of ridiculous, since the only thing publishing the tests does is give Donut more PR. They’re basically laughing all the way to the bank considering how easy it has been to manipulate YouTube, Reddit and HackerNews into giving them free press. We will have another round in a week when the next test is published. I’m honestly impressed. Personally I reserve all judgement until the promised bikes are on the road and torn down by third parties.

mech998877 7mo ago

The massive amount of production-oriented research in solid state and semi solid state batteries indicates to me that this stuff is coming soon in a big way. I've been curious about buying an electric car recently, and if I buy one right now it would only be a used one, don't want to fully invest in something about to be obselete.

fhdkweig 7mo ago
I make the same argument when I buy a computer. If I just wait a little longer, there will be a faster cheaper version of what I can buy today. When buying anything that depreciates, the best strategy is to wait (possibly forever) and only buy when you really need it now.
- yomismoaqui 7mo ago
  Until you wait too much and end in a RAM shortage period due to AI...
  - fhdkweig 7mo ago
    My limited understanding of RAM prices are that they are very cyclical. Very expensive followed by very cheap. You just have to be willing to wait.
    - yomismoaqui 7mo ago
      I hope you are right, but maybe this one is not like the previous ones. Micron leaving consumer market sounds like the real money will be on the AI hardware market. Personally I bought my new laptop a month ago. Let's hope when I have to buy the next one this craziness will be history.
zemvpferreira 7mo ago
“Soon” is likely 5-10 years easily though.
stetrain 7mo ago

sagyam 7mo ago

First report for Donut lab battery is out. Here is the TLDR Specs 26 Ah nominal capacity at 1C discharge rate 94 Wh nominal energy with 3.6V nominal voltage Operates within 2.7V – 4.15V recommended range (max charging to 4.3V) What was verified 5C charging (130A): 0-80% in ~9.5 minutes, 0-100% in ~13.5 minutes 11C charging (286A): 0-80% in ~4.9 minutes, 0-100% in ~7.3 minutes Successfully delivered 98.4-99.6% of charged capacity even after extreme 11C charging Thermal Management Tested with both one-sided and two-sided heat sinks to simulate real-world conditions With dual heat sinks: Peak temps of 47°C (5C) and 63°C (11C) — well within safe limits With single heat sink: Reached 61.5°C (5C) and up to 89°C (11C) — still functional but approaching thermal limit Missing claims Energy density: No weight and volume was mentioned Cycle life: VTT ran only 7 test cycles total. Cost Claims: Nothing about cost is mentioned Material Claims: No chemical analysis or materials analysis. Extreme Temperature Performance: No cold weather testing. No high-temperature testing. No abuse testing: No nail penetration, no overcharge, no short-circuit, no crush tests. But according to the company website another report will drop next monday (March 2nd).

taneq 7mo ago
It’s good to know that it does at least perform about as well as current conventional batteries. The energy density and cycle life were the really off-the-wall claims. It’s exciting to hear that they’re continuing to test, can’t wait for more third party results! Edit: Reading the report, they talk about “charge capacity” (Amp hours in/out) efficiency of 98.4% to 99.6%, but this seems potentially misleading. The actual charge energy efficiency is more like 90%. > Successfully delivered 98.4-99.6% of charged capacity even after extreme 11C charging Note the Wh numbers for discharge vs. charge energy. > Discharge capacity Charge capacity Discharge energy Charge energy > Cycle 1 26.109 Ah 26.159 Ah 91.021 Wh 100.793 Wh
- cogman10 7mo ago
  Yup, those 2 are the ones I really want to see. The energy density isn't out of line if this is a true solid state battery. The cycle life, though, is AFAIK. I don't believe solid states have that sort of cycle life.

hipsdontlie 7mo ago

Here's the CEO Marko Lehtimäki selling his magic AGI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilgJKjiDLV8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilgJKjiDLV8 :D He's been a busy beaver!

skrebbel 7mo ago
Srsly. So it's all bogus then?
- hipsdontlie 7mo ago
  Yep, so it seems!
  - karmakurtisaani 7mo ago
    Definitely a scam.
patapong 7mo ago
Thank you for sharing this, relevant context...
mrtksn 7mo ago
I don't know about that, the last 4 years everyone is selling magical AI and AGI is around the corner. Including every single top 10 rich people. Was this AI proven to be any more fake Than Sam Altman, Elon Musk or Dario Amodei's one? Did he took similar level of money and delivered less than the promised? What's the scam exactly? They don't seem to claim AGI anyway, they say Artificial Super intelligence which is like every AI company claim. You seem to be on a mission against this CEO, maybe you can clarify a bit more about the scams you believe he is committing?
- vardump 7mo ago
  ASI is one step higher than AGI.

pavlov 7mo ago

The weirdest tech story in Finland right now. The founders have sketchy track records. They do a carefully managed social media build-up. There are credible rumors that they’ve been simultaneously raising money by cold-calling moderately wealthy people around the country. (Finland has extremely little oversight for private fundraising; you can basically sell shares in your zero-revenue startup to grandma next door — as long as you’re careful about wording your claims as “projections”.) So lots of red flags. Everyone would love it to be real of course because it’s been a long since Finland’s tech scene had a global hit like Nokia and Supercell… And perhaps the Donut founders are counting on that mood.

hipsdontlie 7mo ago
It's disappointing that this merry band of serial scammers are tarnishing Finland's reputation.
- jusssi 7mo ago
  It's also a bit sus that someone creates an account just to bash them, when they themselves are already doing a great job to make it look like a scam.
- mrtksn 7mo ago
  Can you plase give more information about the scams(not opinions about scam but actual scams where he was exposed) this guy committed?
  - karmakurtisaani 7mo ago
    Who has the burden of proof here? This is absolutely a scam.
    - mrtksn 7mo ago
      Obviously those who claim to be a scam have the burden of proof. Guilty until proven innocent is not a thing, it’s the other way around.

bmvw 7mo ago

Good to have a VTT report confirming the charging speeds, but the actual differentiator would be the energy density I guess, given that BYD has already proven <10min charging with an LFP battery in an actual car. (https://volta.foundation/battery-report-2025/ https://volta.foundation/battery-report-2025/ pg. 161)

donny2018 7mo ago
>BYD has already proven <10min BYD needs to be heavily liquid cooled/thermally managed to achieve that. The Donut battery only had metal heat sink on two or even one side - and its performance was even higher at high temperatures. LFP doesn't behave like that, I think?
- bmvw 7mo ago
  Agree, didn't notice that at first in the results, it would potentially allow for less thermal management and even more density at pack level. Curious to see if VTT will also publish a report on the cycles.

Dockson 7mo ago

This doesn't really follow the usual battery scam pattern, does it? Like, EEStor or Nikola with big claims, timelines pushed years out, raise a ton of money, delay forever. Donut announced at CES and said bikes ship Q1 2026 which is weeks from now. They've raised ~€25M total (QuantumScape has burned through $1.5B+). And apparently they're not doing a big fundraise right now either. If it's a scam it seems like a really bad strategy? You're basically setting a timer on your own credibility. I've been reading around and the thing I keep landing on is the Nordic Nano connection. They're a Finnish nanotech company Donut invested in, and they published specs for a "bipolar electrostatic capacitor" with basically identical numbers - 400 Wh/kg, 100k cycles, fireproof. Does anyone with more battery knowledge know if this could be some kind of supercapacitor hybrid being marketed as a solid-state battery? The VTT report confirms fast charging works but doesn't say anything about energy density, cycle life, or what this thing actually is. Seems like the energy density and cycle life reports (supposedly coming in the next few weeks) are going to be way more interesting than this one.

Hamuko 7mo ago
Yeah, if it's a scam, at least we don't have to worry about it for too long. If we don't have third-party test results and/or the bikes in testers' hands in the next 37 days, then we can be pretty sure that it's just bogus.
skrebbel 7mo ago
I really want this to be true, but the founder launching AGI 9 months ago doesn't help their credibility a lot. And drip-marketing test results seems like a super weird thing to do, whether it's real or it's not. Don't forget that a lot of scams aren't initially on purpose. Eg Theranos by all accounts very gradually morphed from a mild "fake it till you make it" scheme (mild by Silicon Valley standards at least) into a full-blown scam over years of growth and funding, the lies needing to be deeper and deeper over time to cover up the earlier ones. I guess all I'm trying to say is the fact that it's a bad strategy for a scam, doesn't really mean it's not a scam. Those Verge motorcycles appear to actually exist and work though, so that's a data point in favour of this being real.
- 7mo ago

etyhhgfff 7mo ago

The URL seems a bit dubious.

vardump 7mo ago
The PDF itself is signed.

WarmWash 7mo ago

Let me clear some things up as I have experience with places like VTT (but not VTT specifically) in my career. VTT is a company that you pay to run tests for you. You bring them a product, tell them what tests you need done, and then they do them with honesty and expensive well calibrated gear. Frequently you also send engineers along with your product to provide on the spot support for the testing. It's very likely it was a Donut engineer who setup the cell, attached the heatsinks, adjusted the connections, etc. This is pretty standard, VTT just runs verified tests, they're not experts on your product. Then they give you an official honest report recapping the tests done and the results. VTT is not an auditor for verifying claims, at least beyond the scope of the test you task them to do. They are a friendly business partner that you pay large amounts of money to for getting you verified tests done on your product. I really cannot stress enough that VTT is not in it to disprove anything. It's incredibly suspect that in a battery capacity test, Donut did not have VTT verify cell weight or dimension. It's also important to understand that VTT would not request to do this either, because VTT just runs the tests you pay them to, as you tell them to do it. So if donut shows up with a different cell for each test, VTT would not skip a beat, because they are not auditing, they are just doing the tests they are paid to do. Normally places like VTT thrive on compliance testing, where a regulation outlays the tests needed to be passed, and VTT provides the service of being the third party to run and sign off on those tests. Those tests are then submitted to the regulating body and they are the ones who pass/fail you, not VTT. They just do tests and collect money. So Donut is writing their own "regulations" here, so they are just having VTT do whatever tests they want as they want them done. The real test would be someone not affliated with donut taking one of these cells to VTT.

jlhawn 7mo ago
> It's incredibly suspect that in a battery capacity test ... They would probably say this is because it's not a "battery capacity test" but a "charge performance test" But I agree, when they eventually do have VTT perform a capacity test, how can we be sure that it's the same cell from the charge performance test?
- verdverm 7mo ago
  > how can we be sure that it's the same cell from the charge performance test? I would imagine they will run the same tests again. Light testing for specific things during development or scaling, increased testing as you feel more confident in the product.

susarn 7mo ago

[flagged]

luka 7mo ago

To clarify some misconceptions regarding what they do and don't have in their current motorcycles, as of Feb 2026: All of current existing Verge motorcycles have a "traditional" lithium ion ~20kWh battery pack[0], very much on par with competition in all specs. They do exist and a few indeed appear to be in owners' hands (according to Facebook Verge fangroup posts and pics), and they can be test ridden. One of their showrooms is in Valley Fair in San Jose, CA. I have tested one of them. It feels and seems to perform well, as advertized and as physics allow, despite the hubless engine and skepticism around that. However, the test ride was ~30 minutes and there's so few of those bikes out there, that there's virtually no data on longevity. What currently does not exist is a Verge motorcycle with the battery that they claim to be testing here. They have announced that all their offerings will feature their solid state battery later this year, increasing the energy capacity to ~30kWh. That remains to be seen. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20260223173926/https://www.vergemotorcycles.com/battery-information/ https://web.archive.org/web/20260223173926/https://www.verge...

archeopetrix 7mo ago

Apart from metrics like energy density and cycle life, shouldn't we also consider idle self-discharge rate or charged-state longevity when evaluating batteries? No one seems to be talking about that in this case.

Animats 7mo ago

It's nice that they have what they claim is a solid state battery. But having a small prototype isn't that big a deal at this point. All the major players have prototype solid state batteries that work. Nobody has volume production yet, and volume production seems to be hard and expensive, according to CATL and Samsung. Mercedes has a test car with a solid state battery.[1] The battery is from Factorial Energy. There's only one such car, and they don't say how much it cost to make the prototype battery. Ducati has a test motorcycle with a solid state battery.[2] The battery is from QuantumScape. There's only one such motorcycle. Here's Fraunhofer IKTS making a solid state battery at lab scale.[3] The whole process is shown. Huge amount of effort to make one coin cell. Samsung prototype.[4] Samsung has been talking about shipping tiny solid state batteries for wearables in 2026. Still too expensive for cell phones, which gives a sense of cost. All the serious players can make a prototype by now. But the chemistry that's used for the prototypes may not be suitable for production. They have to balance capacity, weight, charge time, cycle life, manufacturing cost, and materials cost. (Samsung made a battery with a substantial silver content. It works, but that's not going to be a volume product) These problems will be overcome, because throwing money at them works. The history of the tungsten-filament light bulb is worth reviewing. Making fine tungsten wire is very difficult. From 1913 to 2010, a huge plant in Euclid, Ohio, made most of the tungsten wire for light bulbs. There were a lot of process steps.[5] [1] https://electrek.co/2025/02/24/mercedes-tests-first-solid-state-battery-ev-with-621-miles-range/ https://electrek.co/2025/02/24/mercedes-tests-first-solid-st... [2] https://www.ducati.com/ww/en/news/ducati-s-electric-research-continues-with-the-v21l-prototype-and-solid-state-batteries https://www.ducati.com/ww/en/news/ducati-s-electric-research... [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5SVrp8N-1M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5SVrp8N-1M [4] https://news.samsungsdi.com/global/articleView?seq=203 https://news.samsungsdi.com/global/articleView?seq=203 [5] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuhapGSexyg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuhapGSexyg

Tuna-Fish 7mo ago
Precisely. People are questioning the wrong things, I find it really easy to believe that Donut has a 400Wh/kg battery that can do 11C charging. Because that's something that can be easily externally verified, and they are sending that battery out to testers, and also because the existence of such a battery isn't new or shocking, many labs have prototypes in roughly the same performance envelope. But that doesn't mean they have a winner, if the battery was ridiculously expensive to make. Their claims about cost are much more suspicious, and they have shown no proof about them.

ChrisArchitect 7mo ago

Earlier source site: https://idonutbelieve.com/#third-party-evidence https://idonutbelieve.com/#third-party-evidence (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47121442 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47121442)

deleted 7mo ago

[deleted]

mrtksn 7mo ago

Ziroth, an engineering YouTuber who pursued academic career in the related fields believe that this must be high end lithium cell due to the characteristic similarities: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H45HXs4xXfA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H45HXs4xXfA