4 ms·

> despite what the haters say Thinking people who disagree with you hate you or hate the thing you like is a recipe for disaster. It's much better to not love

> despite what the haters say Thinking people who disagree with you hate you or hate the thing you like is a recipe for disaster. It's much better to not love or hate things like this, and instead just observe and come to useful, outcome-based conclusions.

simonw 8mo ago
LLMs really do attract haters in the classic sense though. You'll find them in almost every thread on here.
- jcgrillo 8mo ago
  They also attract grifters, frauds, conmen, snake oil peddlers, and every stripe of bullshit artist. I'm someone you probably would view as a hater, but I truly don't hate LLMs. I hate the lies. Projects like this are interesting, I wish there was a lot more of this and a lot less of the "trust me bro" stuff.
- rstuart4133 8mo ago
  At this point, I say it attracts LLM Luddites. I have a lot of sympathy for the Luddites after reading about the sudden loss of jobs and lifestyle, the new textile factories running roughshod over all sorts of ethical boundaries in pursuit of profit - like using child labour, and horrendous accident rates and working hours. It's sad in a way the Luddites weren't more successful than they were, as there were decades of harm inflicted by these newfangled ideas before the kinks were ironed out. But some of the blame for that must be laid at the Luddites' feet - they were focused on preserving the past, choosing to remain in denial about the inevitability of the wave of change crashing down on them. They left the job of ironing out the kinks to the workers in the factories that displaced them. With LLMs, we look be to taking the same broken path as the textile industry and its Luddites, sadly.
giancarlostoro 8mo ago
Look at any HN thread that has a project that uses AI in any way, shape or form. People quickly remark that it is slop, without even reviewing the code. If that's not blind hatred of AI, I don't know what is. There's a huge distinction between Vibe Coding, and actual software engineers using AI tooling effectively. I vibe code for fun sometimes too, nothing wrong with it, helps me figure out how the model behaves in some instances, and to push the limits of what I understand.
- mghackerlady 8mo ago
  Vibe Coding is like porn for programmers. It probably isn't good for you, and you'd probably be better off actually doing the thing yourself, but it feels good and satisfies our desires for instant gratification
  - giancarlostoro 8mo ago
    Well, take for example, I have ideas I've had for years but no time for because by now the requirements are insane. I want to build a backend that could survive nuclear fallout type stuff. I braindump to Claude, watch it churn out my vision for the last 12 years, its insane. There's other things too though: my ADD and my impostor syndrome don't matter to Claude, Claude just takes it all in, so as I keep brain dumping, it keeps chugging along. I don't have to worry a bout "can I really do this?" it just does it and I can focus on "what can I do to make it better" essentially. For me it's beyond "porn coding" its basically fulfilling my vision that's been locked away for years but I've had no time to sit down and do it fully. I can tell Claude to do something, my kid comes up and asks me to go draw with them and I can actually just walk away and look at the output and refine.
    - mghackerlady 8mo ago
      I never said it doesn't have use cases (much like porn a lot of the arguments against are just fear mongering) just that it isn't as good as the real thing. I myself like yapping to an LLM about ideas to see how feasible they actually are before taking a crack at it
  - mikkupikku 8mo ago
    [flagged]
    - philipallstar 8mo ago
      Comparing bitching about vibe coding to porn is like watching porn. You come away feeling better, but you didn't engage meaningfully with anyone else. Who's next?

simonw 8mo ago

LLMs really do attract haters in the classic sense though. You'll find them in almost every thread on here.

jcgrillo 8mo ago
They also attract grifters, frauds, conmen, snake oil peddlers, and every stripe of bullshit artist. I'm someone you probably would view as a hater, but I truly don't hate LLMs. I hate the lies. Projects like this are interesting, I wish there was a lot more of this and a lot less of the "trust me bro" stuff.
rstuart4133 8mo ago
At this point, I say it attracts LLM Luddites. I have a lot of sympathy for the Luddites after reading about the sudden loss of jobs and lifestyle, the new textile factories running roughshod over all sorts of ethical boundaries in pursuit of profit - like using child labour, and horrendous accident rates and working hours. It's sad in a way the Luddites weren't more successful than they were, as there were decades of harm inflicted by these newfangled ideas before the kinks were ironed out. But some of the blame for that must be laid at the Luddites' feet - they were focused on preserving the past, choosing to remain in denial about the inevitability of the wave of change crashing down on them. They left the job of ironing out the kinks to the workers in the factories that displaced them. With LLMs, we look be to taking the same broken path as the textile industry and its Luddites, sadly.

giancarlostoro 8mo ago

Look at any HN thread that has a project that uses AI in any way, shape or form. People quickly remark that it is slop, without even reviewing the code. If that's not blind hatred of AI, I don't know what is. There's a huge distinction between Vibe Coding, and actual software engineers using AI tooling effectively. I vibe code for fun sometimes too, nothing wrong with it, helps me figure out how the model behaves in some instances, and to push the limits of what I understand.

mghackerlady 8mo ago
Vibe Coding is like porn for programmers. It probably isn't good for you, and you'd probably be better off actually doing the thing yourself, but it feels good and satisfies our desires for instant gratification
- giancarlostoro 8mo ago
  Well, take for example, I have ideas I've had for years but no time for because by now the requirements are insane. I want to build a backend that could survive nuclear fallout type stuff. I braindump to Claude, watch it churn out my vision for the last 12 years, its insane. There's other things too though: my ADD and my impostor syndrome don't matter to Claude, Claude just takes it all in, so as I keep brain dumping, it keeps chugging along. I don't have to worry a bout "can I really do this?" it just does it and I can focus on "what can I do to make it better" essentially. For me it's beyond "porn coding" its basically fulfilling my vision that's been locked away for years but I've had no time to sit down and do it fully. I can tell Claude to do something, my kid comes up and asks me to go draw with them and I can actually just walk away and look at the output and refine.
  - mghackerlady 8mo ago
    I never said it doesn't have use cases (much like porn a lot of the arguments against are just fear mongering) just that it isn't as good as the real thing. I myself like yapping to an LLM about ideas to see how feasible they actually are before taking a crack at it
- mikkupikku 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  - philipallstar 8mo ago
    Comparing bitching about vibe coding to porn is like watching porn. You come away feeling better, but you didn't engage meaningfully with anyone else. Who's next?