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I'd be interested in hearing alternative takes on retirement in general. It'd be interesting to see if the idea of "retirement" gets disrupted and the economy

I'd be interested in hearing alternative takes on retirement in general. It'd be interesting to see if the idea of "retirement" gets disrupted and the economy moves from a primarily labor intensive (and physical ability oriented) to knowledge intensive (and mental ability oriented). We're already seeing people work longer, but I wonder if the notion of retiring will go away or if people will keep working as long as they can keep thinking clearly & feel they can create something of value.

michaelochurch 14y ago
White-collar work has even more age discrimination for reasons that have little to do with mental ability. Blue-collar workers can keep going into their 60s. White-collar workers peak in earnings around 45 to 50. For a variety of perverse sociological reasons, companies measure people on their decline curves and bad-case performance. Investment banking analyst programs exemplify this. You don't have to be smart or socially suave to succeed. You have to be average-- after a double all-nighter (and most people aren't). This is twisted because if a company's well-managed, no one sees the right side of the decline curve. Ever. Older people retain their general capability, and have a lot more insight and experience, so normal-case capacity doesn't decline for most, but they lose the ability and desire to participate in shared suffering for 14 hours per day. Sixty-year-old blue collar workers can still keep going. It gets increasingly painful to do the work, but no one fires them until their bodies can't handle it any more (on average, around 70). On the other hand, sixty-year-old white collar workers who haven't played the game well will have to deal with younger bosses (a sign of career failure) and mounting age discrimination.
- joelrunyon 14y ago
  What about for developers/hackers/entrepreneurs. I don't see someone giving up coding just because they hit an age limit. I can see how typical older white collar workers might run into issues, but I'm wondering if engineers would still fall into that category.

michaelochurch 14y ago

White-collar work has even more age discrimination for reasons that have little to do with mental ability. Blue-collar workers can keep going into their 60s. White-collar workers peak in earnings around 45 to 50. For a variety of perverse sociological reasons, companies measure people on their decline curves and bad-case performance. Investment banking analyst programs exemplify this. You don't have to be smart or socially suave to succeed. You have to be average-- after a double all-nighter (and most people aren't). This is twisted because if a company's well-managed, no one sees the right side of the decline curve. Ever. Older people retain their general capability, and have a lot more insight and experience, so normal-case capacity doesn't decline for most, but they lose the ability and desire to participate in shared suffering for 14 hours per day. Sixty-year-old blue collar workers can still keep going. It gets increasingly painful to do the work, but no one fires them until their bodies can't handle it any more (on average, around 70). On the other hand, sixty-year-old white collar workers who haven't played the game well will have to deal with younger bosses (a sign of career failure) and mounting age discrimination.

joelrunyon 14y ago
What about for developers/hackers/entrepreneurs. I don't see someone giving up coding just because they hit an age limit. I can see how typical older white collar workers might run into issues, but I'm wondering if engineers would still fall into that category.