3 ms·

Like Waymo? (https://dmnews.co.uk/waymo-robotaxi-spotted-unable-to-cross-puddle-in-los-angeles/ https://dmnews.co.uk/waymo-robotaxi-spotted-unable-to-cross-...)

Like Waymo? (https://dmnews.co.uk/waymo-robotaxi-spotted-unable-to-cross-puddle-in-los-angeles/ https://dmnews.co.uk/waymo-robotaxi-spotted-unable-to-cross-...) 17 years after betting the farm on LIDAR the solution fails to navigate a puddle. Sorry but they bet on the wrong technology, Tesla has overtaken them with multi camera and NN solution.

UltraSane 8mo ago
Your conclusion from a single incident is a bad inference. One vehicle getting confused by a puddle (likely a sensor fusion edge case or mapping artifact, not a fundamental LIDAR failure) doesn't indict the technology. Tesla's cameras have produces vastly more failures. Waymo has driven tens of millions of autonomous miles with a serious injury/fatality rate dramatically lower than human drivers. The actual data shows the technology works. Tesla FSD still requires active driver supervision and is not legally or technically a robotaxi system. Comparing them as if they're at parity is wrong. LIDAR gives direct metric depth with no inference required. Camera-only systems must infer depth from 2D images using neural networks, which introduces failure modes LIDAR doesn't have. Radar is very valuable when LIDAR and cameras give ambiguous data. What metrics has Telsa overtaken Waymo? Deployed robotaxi revenue miles? No. Disengagement rates? No published comparable data. Safety per mile in driverless operation? No.
- small_model 8mo ago
  A Tesla wouldn't stop for a puddle. Also its not locked to a small geofenced area (people have driven coast to coast without a single intervention on FSD including parking spot to parking spot) when I can buy a Waymo vehicle that does this then Waymo would have caught up with Tesla.
  - jamespo 8mo ago
    Wow, so it can cope with driving on the highway. That's the easy part.
  - UltraSane 8mo ago
    Your puddle example is utterly irrelevant. Tesla's are notorious for phantom breaking. Robotaxis are very much locked to tiny geofenced areas. Some even shaped like a penis because Musk is such a child. "people have driven coast to coast without a single intervention on FSD including parking spot to parking spot" I find this claim very dubious. Prove it. Teslas never drive empty for a very good reason.
    - small_model 8mo ago
      Err they have lots of Model Ys in Austin as Robotaxis right now with no drivers. I guess this is also 'dubious'. Look it's clear you have a huge bias I would urge you to read up on https://grokipedia.com/page/List_of_fallacies https://grokipedia.com/page/List_of_fallacies otherwise your emotional responses will blind you to reality.
      - moooo99 8mo ago
        > Look it's clear you have a huge bias I would urge you to read up on https://grokipedia.com/page/List_of_fallacies https://grokipedia.com/page/List_of_fallacies otherwise your emotional responses will blind you to reality. Writing this and linking to fake Wikipedia is actually hilarious.
      - UltraSane 8mo ago
        "hey have lots of Model Ys in Austin as Robotaxis right now with no drivers" They do not. They have a very small number of them open to a select number of people, not the general public. And they are limited to even smaller areas. You need to understand that Musk is NOT an engineer, he is more of a con man desperate to inflate tesla stock price. If he says self driving cars don't need LIDAR then they must actually need it. https://futurism.com/future-society/polymarket-fortune-betting-against-elon-musk https://futurism.com/future-society/polymarket-fortune-betti... Polymarket user David Bensoussan has made $36,000 by betting against Musk's wildly optimistic self driving predictions. linking to grokipedia feels like intentional rage-baiting.
        small_model 8mo ago
cheema33 8mo ago
> Tesla has overtaken them with multi camera and NN solution. Let me guess, you heard this from Elon?

UltraSane 8mo ago

Your conclusion from a single incident is a bad inference. One vehicle getting confused by a puddle (likely a sensor fusion edge case or mapping artifact, not a fundamental LIDAR failure) doesn't indict the technology. Tesla's cameras have produces vastly more failures. Waymo has driven tens of millions of autonomous miles with a serious injury/fatality rate dramatically lower than human drivers. The actual data shows the technology works. Tesla FSD still requires active driver supervision and is not legally or technically a robotaxi system. Comparing them as if they're at parity is wrong. LIDAR gives direct metric depth with no inference required. Camera-only systems must infer depth from 2D images using neural networks, which introduces failure modes LIDAR doesn't have. Radar is very valuable when LIDAR and cameras give ambiguous data. What metrics has Telsa overtaken Waymo? Deployed robotaxi revenue miles? No. Disengagement rates? No published comparable data. Safety per mile in driverless operation? No.

small_model 8mo ago
A Tesla wouldn't stop for a puddle. Also its not locked to a small geofenced area (people have driven coast to coast without a single intervention on FSD including parking spot to parking spot) when I can buy a Waymo vehicle that does this then Waymo would have caught up with Tesla.
- jamespo 8mo ago
  Wow, so it can cope with driving on the highway. That's the easy part.
- UltraSane 8mo ago
  Your puddle example is utterly irrelevant. Tesla's are notorious for phantom breaking. Robotaxis are very much locked to tiny geofenced areas. Some even shaped like a penis because Musk is such a child. "people have driven coast to coast without a single intervention on FSD including parking spot to parking spot" I find this claim very dubious. Prove it. Teslas never drive empty for a very good reason.
  - small_model 8mo ago
    Err they have lots of Model Ys in Austin as Robotaxis right now with no drivers. I guess this is also 'dubious'. Look it's clear you have a huge bias I would urge you to read up on https://grokipedia.com/page/List_of_fallacies https://grokipedia.com/page/List_of_fallacies otherwise your emotional responses will blind you to reality.
    - moooo99 8mo ago
      > Look it's clear you have a huge bias I would urge you to read up on https://grokipedia.com/page/List_of_fallacies https://grokipedia.com/page/List_of_fallacies otherwise your emotional responses will blind you to reality. Writing this and linking to fake Wikipedia is actually hilarious.
    - UltraSane 8mo ago
      "hey have lots of Model Ys in Austin as Robotaxis right now with no drivers" They do not. They have a very small number of them open to a select number of people, not the general public. And they are limited to even smaller areas. You need to understand that Musk is NOT an engineer, he is more of a con man desperate to inflate tesla stock price. If he says self driving cars don't need LIDAR then they must actually need it. https://futurism.com/future-society/polymarket-fortune-betting-against-elon-musk https://futurism.com/future-society/polymarket-fortune-betti... Polymarket user David Bensoussan has made $36,000 by betting against Musk's wildly optimistic self driving predictions. linking to grokipedia feels like intentional rage-baiting.
      - small_model 8mo ago

cheema33 8mo ago

> Tesla has overtaken them with multi camera and NN solution. Let me guess, you heard this from Elon?