4 ms·

> People enjoy short form video, people should be able to enjoy things they like with dignity, which is in extremely short supply on algorithm and advert driven

> People enjoy short form video, people should be able to enjoy things they like with dignity, which is in extremely short supply on algorithm and advert driven social media. People “enjoy” heroin, crack cocaine, fentanyl too, should they “enjoy” them with dignity too?

blablablerg 8mo ago
Yes.
boriskourt 8mo ago
yes, a lot of the issues around this come because of the lack of dignity.
- pjc50 8mo ago
  Both in the case of drugs and short form vertical video. There's a lot of stuff which may loosely be termed "vices", e.g. alcohol and gambling, which have the property: - many people never touch - many people indulge without significant harm, getting enjoyment from the process - some people over indulge messily - a few people get their lives completely ruined, or ruin the lives of those around them Then there's an uncomfortable, unreconcilable tension between the desire to punish/prevent the last group by banning the thing, versus the second group entirely reasonably saying that it's not a problem for them.
  - balamatom 8mo ago
    To be fair, sobriety has the same property; so does feature-length landscape-oriented cinema; so does involvement in religious and political affairs. Many things that people get up to ostensibly "of their own accord" have these four groups of outcomes, in different proportions. Makes you figure. I'm of the opinion that the main problem has always been the increasing powerlessness of the individual in the face of mass social phenomena that camouflage as "your life now" but are instead someone's viral PR campaign. In Germany this stuff passed in 10ish years, in Russia it passed in 80ish; California still countin'
framapotari 8mo ago
Would you prefer that they do it without dignity?
- wiseowise 8mo ago
  I would prefer they don't do it at all, unless there's a medical urgency.
  - blablablerg 8mo ago
    Ah yes, a reply in true hacker fashion, if people only were that binary. Just don't use, then addiction wouldn't be a thing! Problem solved. We can see it all around, the now 55 years war on drugs has been a great success! I'm not sure if you ever had to deal with someone addicted close to you, but it is heartbreaking. They are already ashamed of themselves and suffer. The last thing you want to do is take away their dignity, because that shuts them out and puts the path to recovery even further. They are still humans you know, just with a problem. They need help, not a trashing. That they are already doing to themselves.
    - wiseowise 8mo ago
      That’s what I said, though? If they’re addicted and working on their addiction – there’s a medical reason why they do it. If they’re shooting heroin for fun, then they’ll get nothing but scorn from me.
andai 8mo ago
So the argument here is like a harm reduction argument, as in the decriminalization/legalization of hard drugs? That seems a little uncharitable, though it does get me wondering... Imagine if benevolent hackers took over The Algorithm. What might they achieve? They could promote high quality educational content, as is done in certain other nations. They could utilize the companies' infinite knowledge of Skinner box mechanics to discourage and even break screen addiction, rather than cultivate it. The possibilities are endless. Any volunteers? ;)
latexr 8mo ago
Yes, of course. That’s what Portugal’s drug policy did. By allowing a path for doing hard drugs safely and with dignity, you also allow a path for conversation, getting help, and leaving them behind.
deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
lynx97 8mo ago
> heroin ... with dignity That discussion is already over since, what... 20 years? Heroin addicts get their fix from the state, with tax payer money, in many many countries these days. I can see the line waiting in front of my pharmacy every day in the morning...
gverrilla 8mo ago
Yes.
balamatom 8mo ago
I love love love how you deny people both their enjoyment and their dignity. You are a truly moral person; I hope you have numerous progeny.
- wiseowise 8mo ago
  > I love love love how you deny people both their enjoyment and their dignity. You are a truly moral person; I hope you have numerous progeny. Only enjoyment from drugs, they're free to do it with dignity without enjoyment.
  - balamatom 8mo ago
    The point is, you don't have a say in this.
    - wiseowise 8mo ago
      Sure I do. I don’t have a say in how they spend their time, but if I catch a whiff that someone is doing hard drugs for fun then I’m going to treat them differently than someone addicted and going through a rehab.

blablablerg 8mo ago

Yes.

boriskourt 8mo ago

yes, a lot of the issues around this come because of the lack of dignity.

pjc50 8mo ago
Both in the case of drugs and short form vertical video. There's a lot of stuff which may loosely be termed "vices", e.g. alcohol and gambling, which have the property: - many people never touch - many people indulge without significant harm, getting enjoyment from the process - some people over indulge messily - a few people get their lives completely ruined, or ruin the lives of those around them Then there's an uncomfortable, unreconcilable tension between the desire to punish/prevent the last group by banning the thing, versus the second group entirely reasonably saying that it's not a problem for them.
- balamatom 8mo ago
  To be fair, sobriety has the same property; so does feature-length landscape-oriented cinema; so does involvement in religious and political affairs. Many things that people get up to ostensibly "of their own accord" have these four groups of outcomes, in different proportions. Makes you figure. I'm of the opinion that the main problem has always been the increasing powerlessness of the individual in the face of mass social phenomena that camouflage as "your life now" but are instead someone's viral PR campaign. In Germany this stuff passed in 10ish years, in Russia it passed in 80ish; California still countin'

framapotari 8mo ago

Would you prefer that they do it without dignity?

wiseowise 8mo ago
I would prefer they don't do it at all, unless there's a medical urgency.
- blablablerg 8mo ago
  Ah yes, a reply in true hacker fashion, if people only were that binary. Just don't use, then addiction wouldn't be a thing! Problem solved. We can see it all around, the now 55 years war on drugs has been a great success! I'm not sure if you ever had to deal with someone addicted close to you, but it is heartbreaking. They are already ashamed of themselves and suffer. The last thing you want to do is take away their dignity, because that shuts them out and puts the path to recovery even further. They are still humans you know, just with a problem. They need help, not a trashing. That they are already doing to themselves.
  - wiseowise 8mo ago
    That’s what I said, though? If they’re addicted and working on their addiction – there’s a medical reason why they do it. If they’re shooting heroin for fun, then they’ll get nothing but scorn from me.

andai 8mo ago

So the argument here is like a harm reduction argument, as in the decriminalization/legalization of hard drugs? That seems a little uncharitable, though it does get me wondering... Imagine if benevolent hackers took over The Algorithm. What might they achieve? They could promote high quality educational content, as is done in certain other nations. They could utilize the companies' infinite knowledge of Skinner box mechanics to discourage and even break screen addiction, rather than cultivate it. The possibilities are endless. Any volunteers? ;)

latexr 8mo ago

Yes, of course. That’s what Portugal’s drug policy did. By allowing a path for doing hard drugs safely and with dignity, you also allow a path for conversation, getting help, and leaving them behind.

deleted 8mo ago

[deleted]

lynx97 8mo ago

> heroin ... with dignity That discussion is already over since, what... 20 years? Heroin addicts get their fix from the state, with tax payer money, in many many countries these days. I can see the line waiting in front of my pharmacy every day in the morning...

gverrilla 8mo ago

Yes.

balamatom 8mo ago

I love love love how you deny people both their enjoyment and their dignity. You are a truly moral person; I hope you have numerous progeny.

wiseowise 8mo ago
> I love love love how you deny people both their enjoyment and their dignity. You are a truly moral person; I hope you have numerous progeny. Only enjoyment from drugs, they're free to do it with dignity without enjoyment.
- balamatom 8mo ago
  The point is, you don't have a say in this.
  - wiseowise 8mo ago
    Sure I do. I don’t have a say in how they spend their time, but if I catch a whiff that someone is doing hard drugs for fun then I’m going to treat them differently than someone addicted and going through a rehab.