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TikTok has ~1.59 billion global active users, if you go to Cambodia you will have a hard time not seeing it in the wild. It is painful that this is still seen a

TikTok has ~1.59 billion global active users, if you go to Cambodia you will have a hard time not seeing it in the wild. It is painful that this is still seen as some teen trend. People enjoy short form video, people should be able to enjoy things they like with dignity, which is in extremely short supply on algorithm and advert driven social media. Loops is nice because it isn't algorithm oriented. You can follow folks and just see their things if you like, or see whats on the instance. Loops doesn't need to 'slay tiktok' Loops just needs to grow organically and support the niches that feel like using it, and it can take the time to do that at any pace. Its success is not determined by user numbers or series rounds. I don't like to produce short form video, but its been nice to now follow a few people on Loops from Mastodon. Its nice that the Fediverse allows multiple forms of expression.

wiseowise 7mo ago
> People enjoy short form video, people should be able to enjoy things they like with dignity, which is in extremely short supply on algorithm and advert driven social media. People “enjoy” heroin, crack cocaine, fentanyl too, should they “enjoy” them with dignity too?
- blablablerg 7mo ago
  Yes.
- boriskourt 7mo ago
  yes, a lot of the issues around this come because of the lack of dignity.
  - pjc50 7mo ago
    Both in the case of drugs and short form vertical video. There's a lot of stuff which may loosely be termed "vices", e.g. alcohol and gambling, which have the property: - many people never touch - many people indulge without significant harm, getting enjoyment from the process - some people over indulge messily - a few people get their lives completely ruined, or ruin the lives of those around them Then there's an uncomfortable, unreconcilable tension between the desire to punish/prevent the last group by banning the thing, versus the second group entirely reasonably saying that it's not a problem for them.
    - balamatom 7mo ago
      To be fair, sobriety has the same property; so does feature-length landscape-oriented cinema; so does involvement in religious and political affairs. Many things that people get up to ostensibly "of their own accord" have these four groups of outcomes, in different proportions. Makes you figure. I'm of the opinion that the main problem has always been the increasing powerlessness of the individual in the face of mass social phenomena that camouflage as "your life now" but are instead someone's viral PR campaign. In Germany this stuff passed in 10ish years, in Russia it passed in 80ish; California still countin'
- framapotari 7mo ago
  Would you prefer that they do it without dignity?
  - wiseowise 7mo ago
    I would prefer they don't do it at all, unless there's a medical urgency.
    - blablablerg 7mo ago
      Ah yes, a reply in true hacker fashion, if people only were that binary. Just don't use, then addiction wouldn't be a thing! Problem solved. We can see it all around, the now 55 years war on drugs has been a great success! I'm not sure if you ever had to deal with someone addicted close to you, but it is heartbreaking. They are already ashamed of themselves and suffer. The last thing you want to do is take away their dignity, because that shuts them out and puts the path to recovery even further. They are still humans you know, just with a problem. They need help, not a trashing. That they are already doing to themselves.
      - wiseowise 7mo ago
        That’s what I said, though? If they’re addicted and working on their addiction – there’s a medical reason why they do it. If they’re shooting heroin for fun, then they’ll get nothing but scorn from me.
- andai 7mo ago
  So the argument here is like a harm reduction argument, as in the decriminalization/legalization of hard drugs? That seems a little uncharitable, though it does get me wondering... Imagine if benevolent hackers took over The Algorithm. What might they achieve? They could promote high quality educational content, as is done in certain other nations. They could utilize the companies' infinite knowledge of Skinner box mechanics to discourage and even break screen addiction, rather than cultivate it. The possibilities are endless. Any volunteers? ;)
- latexr 7mo ago
  Yes, of course. That’s what Portugal’s drug policy did. By allowing a path for doing hard drugs safely and with dignity, you also allow a path for conversation, getting help, and leaving them behind.
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
- lynx97 7mo ago
  > heroin ... with dignity That discussion is already over since, what... 20 years? Heroin addicts get their fix from the state, with tax payer money, in many many countries these days. I can see the line waiting in front of my pharmacy every day in the morning...
- gverrilla 7mo ago
  Yes.
- balamatom 7mo ago
  I love love love how you deny people both their enjoyment and their dignity. You are a truly moral person; I hope you have numerous progeny.
  - wiseowise 7mo ago
    > I love love love how you deny people both their enjoyment and their dignity. You are a truly moral person; I hope you have numerous progeny. Only enjoyment from drugs, they're free to do it with dignity without enjoyment.
    - balamatom 7mo ago
      The point is, you don't have a say in this.
      - wiseowise 7mo ago
        Sure I do. I don’t have a say in how they spend their time, but if I catch a whiff that someone is doing hard drugs for fun then I’m going to treat them differently than someone addicted and going through a rehab.
lynx97 7mo ago
It is seen as some teen trend because... brankly... most users are rather infantil.

wiseowise 7mo ago

> People enjoy short form video, people should be able to enjoy things they like with dignity, which is in extremely short supply on algorithm and advert driven social media. People “enjoy” heroin, crack cocaine, fentanyl too, should they “enjoy” them with dignity too?

blablablerg 7mo ago
Yes.
boriskourt 7mo ago
yes, a lot of the issues around this come because of the lack of dignity.
- pjc50 7mo ago
  Both in the case of drugs and short form vertical video. There's a lot of stuff which may loosely be termed "vices", e.g. alcohol and gambling, which have the property: - many people never touch - many people indulge without significant harm, getting enjoyment from the process - some people over indulge messily - a few people get their lives completely ruined, or ruin the lives of those around them Then there's an uncomfortable, unreconcilable tension between the desire to punish/prevent the last group by banning the thing, versus the second group entirely reasonably saying that it's not a problem for them.
  - balamatom 7mo ago
    To be fair, sobriety has the same property; so does feature-length landscape-oriented cinema; so does involvement in religious and political affairs. Many things that people get up to ostensibly "of their own accord" have these four groups of outcomes, in different proportions. Makes you figure. I'm of the opinion that the main problem has always been the increasing powerlessness of the individual in the face of mass social phenomena that camouflage as "your life now" but are instead someone's viral PR campaign. In Germany this stuff passed in 10ish years, in Russia it passed in 80ish; California still countin'
framapotari 7mo ago
Would you prefer that they do it without dignity?
- wiseowise 7mo ago
  I would prefer they don't do it at all, unless there's a medical urgency.
  - blablablerg 7mo ago
    Ah yes, a reply in true hacker fashion, if people only were that binary. Just don't use, then addiction wouldn't be a thing! Problem solved. We can see it all around, the now 55 years war on drugs has been a great success! I'm not sure if you ever had to deal with someone addicted close to you, but it is heartbreaking. They are already ashamed of themselves and suffer. The last thing you want to do is take away their dignity, because that shuts them out and puts the path to recovery even further. They are still humans you know, just with a problem. They need help, not a trashing. That they are already doing to themselves.
    - wiseowise 7mo ago
      That’s what I said, though? If they’re addicted and working on their addiction – there’s a medical reason why they do it. If they’re shooting heroin for fun, then they’ll get nothing but scorn from me.
andai 7mo ago
So the argument here is like a harm reduction argument, as in the decriminalization/legalization of hard drugs? That seems a little uncharitable, though it does get me wondering... Imagine if benevolent hackers took over The Algorithm. What might they achieve? They could promote high quality educational content, as is done in certain other nations. They could utilize the companies' infinite knowledge of Skinner box mechanics to discourage and even break screen addiction, rather than cultivate it. The possibilities are endless. Any volunteers? ;)
latexr 7mo ago
Yes, of course. That’s what Portugal’s drug policy did. By allowing a path for doing hard drugs safely and with dignity, you also allow a path for conversation, getting help, and leaving them behind.
deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]
lynx97 7mo ago
> heroin ... with dignity That discussion is already over since, what... 20 years? Heroin addicts get their fix from the state, with tax payer money, in many many countries these days. I can see the line waiting in front of my pharmacy every day in the morning...
gverrilla 7mo ago
Yes.
balamatom 7mo ago
I love love love how you deny people both their enjoyment and their dignity. You are a truly moral person; I hope you have numerous progeny.
- wiseowise 7mo ago
  > I love love love how you deny people both their enjoyment and their dignity. You are a truly moral person; I hope you have numerous progeny. Only enjoyment from drugs, they're free to do it with dignity without enjoyment.
  - balamatom 7mo ago
    The point is, you don't have a say in this.
    - wiseowise 7mo ago
      Sure I do. I don’t have a say in how they spend their time, but if I catch a whiff that someone is doing hard drugs for fun then I’m going to treat them differently than someone addicted and going through a rehab.

lynx97 7mo ago

It is seen as some teen trend because... brankly... most users are rather infantil.