3 ms·

Citation needed

echelon 8mo ago
I actually looked at several graphs before posting. Wasn't easy to share crude data so I didn't link it. Now that I'm googling for more deliberate correlations, I see other people are talking about this: https://roytriggs.medium.com/internet-use-and-birth-rates-analysing-the-data-fdf6f079f850 https://roytriggs.medium.com/internet-use-and-birth-rates-an... https://fortune.com/well/2025/03/28/phones-declining-birth-rate-elon-musk/ https://fortune.com/well/2025/03/28/phones-declining-birth-r... https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/29/opinion/dating-marriage-children-fertility.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/29/opinion/dating-marriage-c... "The phone killed babies" tracks with my intuition about this. Data correlates. Finances aren't keeping me from having kids. The internet is. Smartphones are. Weird as that sounds. I can unpack more and expand this into a conversation.
- jowsie 8mo ago
  This is completely ignoring the most common reason for not having children that I've heard amongst friends and family: "I can't afford a house, I'll never be able to afford kids."
  - echelon 8mo ago
    I really don't buy that argument at all. My parents lived in apartments. Parents for all of human civilization and history have lived in worse. The fastest growing populations have less money and safety nets than middle class folks. It's the dopamine and time suck. Men and women aren't bored and looking to fill the void and boredom with children. (Kids also can't work as free labor on the farm anymore, either, but that just adds to this argument.) Kids keep you from nights out with the friends, dating, concerts, fortnite, girl gossip, phone time, etc. People are choosing "I don't have time for kids (now)" and continuing with their dopamine filled lives. House purchase planning is orthogonal.
    - deaux 8mo ago
      > My parents lived in apartments. In much of the world, the most expensive real estate is apartments.
      - echelon 8mo ago
        I'm not talking expensive apartments. People might have the faux preference for ideal conditions, but it's an artificial mask for not having time. Severely resource constrained people have kids. People with other things to do, don't.
    - wiseowise 8mo ago
      So you think trudging through life with kids is somehow more virtuous than trying to enjoy limited time you have?
      - greenchair 8mo ago
        yes obv
      - edgyquant 8mo ago
        This is not an honest question
  - account42 8mo ago
    Actually poor people don't seem to have that problem.

Citation needed

I actually looked at several graphs before posting. Wasn't easy to share crude data so I didn't link it. Now that I'm googling for more deliberate correlations, I see other people are talking about this: https://roytriggs.medium.com/internet-use-and-birth-rates-analysing-the-data-fdf6f079f850 https://roytriggs.medium.com/internet-use-and-birth-rates-an... https://fortune.com/well/2025/03/28/phones-declining-birth-rate-elon-musk/ https://fortune.com/well/2025/03/28/phones-declining-birth-r... https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/29/opinion/dating-marriage-children-fertility.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/29/opinion/dating-marriage-c... "The phone killed babies" tracks with my intuition about this. Data correlates. Finances aren't keeping me from having kids. The internet is. Smartphones are. Weird as that sounds. I can unpack more and expand this into a conversation.

jowsie 8mo ago
This is completely ignoring the most common reason for not having children that I've heard amongst friends and family: "I can't afford a house, I'll never be able to afford kids."
- echelon 8mo ago
  I really don't buy that argument at all. My parents lived in apartments. Parents for all of human civilization and history have lived in worse. The fastest growing populations have less money and safety nets than middle class folks. It's the dopamine and time suck. Men and women aren't bored and looking to fill the void and boredom with children. (Kids also can't work as free labor on the farm anymore, either, but that just adds to this argument.) Kids keep you from nights out with the friends, dating, concerts, fortnite, girl gossip, phone time, etc. People are choosing "I don't have time for kids (now)" and continuing with their dopamine filled lives. House purchase planning is orthogonal.
  - deaux 8mo ago
    > My parents lived in apartments. In much of the world, the most expensive real estate is apartments.
    - echelon 8mo ago
      I'm not talking expensive apartments. People might have the faux preference for ideal conditions, but it's an artificial mask for not having time. Severely resource constrained people have kids. People with other things to do, don't.
  - wiseowise 8mo ago
    So you think trudging through life with kids is somehow more virtuous than trying to enjoy limited time you have?
    - greenchair 8mo ago
      yes obv
    - edgyquant 8mo ago
      This is not an honest question
- account42 8mo ago
  Actually poor people don't seem to have that problem.