4 ms·

I wonder why did it take so long for someone to make something(s) this fast when this much performance was always available on the table. Crazy accomplishment!

WD-42 7mo ago
Because Rust makes developers excited in a way that C/C++ just doesn't.
- grougnax 7mo ago
  C++ is pure trash C is fine but old
  - phplovesong 7mo ago
    You dont need C(++) for building performant software.
- pjmlp 7mo ago
  Yeah, it is as if there were never other compiled languages before to rewrite JavaScripting tooling.
  - dwattttt 7mo ago
    The word 'excited' in GP's post isn't decorative.
    - pjmlp 7mo ago
      I am fully aware of it, there have been many 'excited' posts in HN history about various programming languages, with related rewrite X in Y, the remark still stands.
  - WD-42 7mo ago
    Why do people get so mad that other people enjoy a language? If I’m more likely to rewrite some tooling because of the existence of a programming language and it’s more performant, isn’t that good for everyone? We are programmers we are supposed to like programming. These rust haters are intolerable.
    - pjmlp 7mo ago
      Because it gets tiring to have all those Rewrite X in Y, as if X was the very first language where that is possible.
      - WD-42 7mo ago
        Is anyone forcing you to rewrite anything in rust?
- phplovesong 7mo ago
  We had many languages that are faster that are not c/c++. Compare Go (esbuild) to webpack (JS), its over 100x faster easily. For a dev time matters, but is relative, waiting 50sec for a webpack build compared to 50ms with a Go toolchain is life changing. But for a dev waiting 50ms or 20ms does not matter. At all. So the conclusion is javascript devs like hype, and flooded Rust and built tooling for JS in Rust. They could have used any other compiled languge and get near the same peformance computer-time-wise, or the exact same time human-timewise.
  - wiseowise 7mo ago
    > But for a dev waiting 50ms or 20ms does not matter. At all. It absolutely does: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2018-May/153296.html https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2018-May/153296... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16978932 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16978932.
    - pjmlp 7mo ago
      To win benchmark games it does, in a world where people keep shipping Electron crap, not really.
    - phplovesong 7mo ago
      Not sure if you missed the /s? Anyway, you posted about speed, and then followed by a link to some python related thing. In python speed has never been a key tenet, at least when it comes to pure cpu based calculations. How much tooling is built in python? All the modern python tooling is mostly Rust based too. So theres that. I mean for a dev working in JS with JS built tooling the speed is not in milliseconds, but in seconds, even minutes. I still think my point holds, having a build take int he 10s of seconds vs 50ms is very much good enough for development (the usual frontend save and refresh browser cycle)
  - pjmlp 7mo ago
    No worries, when Zig hits 1.0, the RIZ projects from JavaScript, Python and Ruby tooling will start hitting HN frontpage.
chrysoprace 7mo ago
I believe it goes back a few years to originally being just oxlint, and then recently Void Zero was created to fund the project. One of the big obstacles I can imagine is that it needs extensive plugin support to support all the modern flavours of TypeScript like React, Vue, Svelte, and backwards compatibility with old linting rules (in the case of oxlint, as opposed to oxc which I imagine was a by-product).
nullsanity 7mo ago
It takes a good programmer to write it, and most good programmers avoid JavaScript, unless forced to use it for their day job. in that case, there is no incentive to speed up the part of the job that isn't writing JavaScript.
- pjmlp 7mo ago
  Some of us, already have all the speed we need with Java and .NET tooling, don't waste our time rewriting stuff, nor need to bother with borrow checker, even if it isn't a big deal to write affine types compliant code. And we can always reach out to Scala or F# if feeling creating to play with type systems.
- wiseowise 7mo ago
  > It takes a good programmer to write it, and most good programmers avoid JavaScript, unless forced to use it for their day job. Nonsense.
TheAlexLichter 7mo ago
For a couple of reasons: * You need have a clean architecture, so starting "almost from scratch" * Knowledge about performance (for Rust and for build tools in general) is necessary * Enough reason to do so, lack of perf in competition and users feeling friction * Time and money (still have to pay bills, right?)
throw567643u8 7mo ago
Fractured ecosystem. Low barrier to entry, so loads of tooling.

WD-42 7mo ago

Because Rust makes developers excited in a way that C/C++ just doesn't.

grougnax 7mo ago
C++ is pure trash C is fine but old
- phplovesong 7mo ago
  You dont need C(++) for building performant software.
pjmlp 7mo ago
Yeah, it is as if there were never other compiled languages before to rewrite JavaScripting tooling.
- dwattttt 7mo ago
  The word 'excited' in GP's post isn't decorative.
  - pjmlp 7mo ago
    I am fully aware of it, there have been many 'excited' posts in HN history about various programming languages, with related rewrite X in Y, the remark still stands.
- WD-42 7mo ago
  Why do people get so mad that other people enjoy a language? If I’m more likely to rewrite some tooling because of the existence of a programming language and it’s more performant, isn’t that good for everyone? We are programmers we are supposed to like programming. These rust haters are intolerable.
  - pjmlp 7mo ago
    Because it gets tiring to have all those Rewrite X in Y, as if X was the very first language where that is possible.
    - WD-42 7mo ago
      Is anyone forcing you to rewrite anything in rust?
phplovesong 7mo ago
We had many languages that are faster that are not c/c++. Compare Go (esbuild) to webpack (JS), its over 100x faster easily. For a dev time matters, but is relative, waiting 50sec for a webpack build compared to 50ms with a Go toolchain is life changing. But for a dev waiting 50ms or 20ms does not matter. At all. So the conclusion is javascript devs like hype, and flooded Rust and built tooling for JS in Rust. They could have used any other compiled languge and get near the same peformance computer-time-wise, or the exact same time human-timewise.
- wiseowise 7mo ago
  > But for a dev waiting 50ms or 20ms does not matter. At all. It absolutely does: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2018-May/153296.html https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2018-May/153296... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16978932 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16978932.
  - pjmlp 7mo ago
    To win benchmark games it does, in a world where people keep shipping Electron crap, not really.
  - phplovesong 7mo ago
    Not sure if you missed the /s? Anyway, you posted about speed, and then followed by a link to some python related thing. In python speed has never been a key tenet, at least when it comes to pure cpu based calculations. How much tooling is built in python? All the modern python tooling is mostly Rust based too. So theres that. I mean for a dev working in JS with JS built tooling the speed is not in milliseconds, but in seconds, even minutes. I still think my point holds, having a build take int he 10s of seconds vs 50ms is very much good enough for development (the usual frontend save and refresh browser cycle)
- pjmlp 7mo ago
  No worries, when Zig hits 1.0, the RIZ projects from JavaScript, Python and Ruby tooling will start hitting HN frontpage.

chrysoprace 7mo ago

I believe it goes back a few years to originally being just oxlint, and then recently Void Zero was created to fund the project. One of the big obstacles I can imagine is that it needs extensive plugin support to support all the modern flavours of TypeScript like React, Vue, Svelte, and backwards compatibility with old linting rules (in the case of oxlint, as opposed to oxc which I imagine was a by-product).

nullsanity 7mo ago

It takes a good programmer to write it, and most good programmers avoid JavaScript, unless forced to use it for their day job. in that case, there is no incentive to speed up the part of the job that isn't writing JavaScript.

pjmlp 7mo ago
Some of us, already have all the speed we need with Java and .NET tooling, don't waste our time rewriting stuff, nor need to bother with borrow checker, even if it isn't a big deal to write affine types compliant code. And we can always reach out to Scala or F# if feeling creating to play with type systems.
wiseowise 7mo ago
> It takes a good programmer to write it, and most good programmers avoid JavaScript, unless forced to use it for their day job. Nonsense.

TheAlexLichter 7mo ago

For a couple of reasons: * You need have a clean architecture, so starting "almost from scratch" * Knowledge about performance (for Rust and for build tools in general) is necessary * Enough reason to do so, lack of perf in competition and users feeling friction * Time and money (still have to pay bills, right?)

throw567643u8 7mo ago

Fractured ecosystem. Low barrier to entry, so loads of tooling.