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> where it seems almost any attempt to gatekeep is seen as a freedom violation 1.) Because it always seems to have an outsized impact on adults. Then the preda

> where it seems almost any attempt to gatekeep is seen as a freedom violation 1.) Because it always seems to have an outsized impact on adults. Then the predators get away with it because the platforms DGAF (for example, Discord has had a MASSIVE problem with illegality for YEARS, with boatloads of reports and evidence that was blatantly ignored, and yet NOW they need your ID?) And any gate design that COULD work without PII won't be implemented because data is too juicy. > Maybe this is why we need protocols over platforms? > If counter culture gets driven back to IRC, or gasp meatspace, then all the better. 2.) Yes on both counts. But protocols need to be decentralized, massively scalable, available across every platform including phones, and normie-grade easy-to-use (not everybody, and it's getting better now, but lots of devs tend to give up here, like it's a binary choice between a lobotomized barely-functioning bloated Fisher-Price app and a fully-functioning lean app with awful UI. Shockingly difficult, as I discovered trying to program, but both possible and necessary.) But as for meatspace... > we went from a world where most everything was intermediated by parents 3.) If anything, the world is intermediated by parents like never before.[1] Not everywhere, not everybody, but enough freedom of movement and gathering has been lost by children and teens that it is killing meatspace. This CANNOT be ignored if you want to address online problems. The internet, awful as it can be, is the only "free" place left to roam for many. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45945114 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45945114

techblueberry 8mo ago
Necessity is the mother of invention, kick all the kids off the internet, and let them drive their parents crazy until they let them out. I remember when I was younger there was consternation about people believing AOL was the internet. Now we’ve basically all settled into the walled garden. I really don’t know that there’s any more baby to throw out with the bath water.
- bilegeek 8mo ago
  Until * CPS gets called? * cops harass them again? * the malls and many other places kick them out * (at least for most of the USA) zoning laws and public transit issues are all fixed? You cannot let individual families, even individual kids/teens, shoulder this burden alone. If your local malls, cops, and nosy neighbors have already clearly shown that they DO NOT want free-range kids in practice, would you risk the breakup of your family and bankruptcy from legal fees alone? (Assuming there's no community support, because a functional community wouldn't have this problem.) Kudos if so, but most people won't risk it if the chance of success is too low.
  - techblueberry 8mo ago
    I’m feeling very William Wallace, you make take our lives but you’ll never take our freedom. We cannot keep saying well the laws are insane so we’ll just let Zuck force feed them mindless crap and advertisements. Yes, people need to become more active in their communities to fight this bullshit.

techblueberry 8mo ago

Necessity is the mother of invention, kick all the kids off the internet, and let them drive their parents crazy until they let them out. I remember when I was younger there was consternation about people believing AOL was the internet. Now we’ve basically all settled into the walled garden. I really don’t know that there’s any more baby to throw out with the bath water.

bilegeek 8mo ago
Until * CPS gets called? * cops harass them again? * the malls and many other places kick them out * (at least for most of the USA) zoning laws and public transit issues are all fixed? You cannot let individual families, even individual kids/teens, shoulder this burden alone. If your local malls, cops, and nosy neighbors have already clearly shown that they DO NOT want free-range kids in practice, would you risk the breakup of your family and bankruptcy from legal fees alone? (Assuming there's no community support, because a functional community wouldn't have this problem.) Kudos if so, but most people won't risk it if the chance of success is too low.
- techblueberry 8mo ago
  I’m feeling very William Wallace, you make take our lives but you’ll never take our freedom. We cannot keep saying well the laws are insane so we’ll just let Zuck force feed them mindless crap and advertisements. Yes, people need to become more active in their communities to fight this bullshit.