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> A while back I made completely separate Google accounts for YouTube and Maps just so my longstanding Gmail account wouldn't get banned if the system somehow d

by blibble 7mo ago

> A while back I made completely separate Google accounts for YouTube and Maps just so my longstanding Gmail account wouldn't get banned if the system somehow detected that my Youtube account for example breached Google's TOS. I bet you that if they ban one they ban the other too the only safe way is to get your important data out of Google entirely after manifest v3's announcement, I de-googled: gmail, chrome, search, google cloud, photos, family on android phones 2 years later, it's all gone, except youtube and if they ban that I don't care

londons_explore 7mo ago
Linked bans pretty much only happen if you use the same recovery phone number or email address. Other ways of linking an account, such as having both logged in on the same phone, don't put you at risk.
- qmarchi 7mo ago
  Disclaimer: Former Googler Yeah they do. There's an entire mesh of metrics that are used to calculate your relation to separate accounts. It's the confidence tolerance that keeps you and your partner from getting banned together.
  - jacquesm 7mo ago
    > There's an entire mesh of metrics that are used to calculate your relation to separate accounts. > It's the confidence tolerance that keeps you and your partner from getting banned together. Thanks for that bit of info, the degree of disgusting that google would be tracking who people's partners are is off the scale invasive and should be a reason for an immediate complaint to the various data privacy authorities.
    - joshuamorton 7mo ago
      I think you're vastly misunderstanding that comment.
      - jacquesm 7mo ago
        Thus spake the Googler... sorry, but I think I understand it just fine, I think it is you that is not understanding it properly but since your salary depends on not understanding it properly I won't blame you for that.
        joshuamorton 7mo ago
        I'll be more explicit, > google would be tracking who people's partners are is a misunderstanding of that comment. Nothing they said implies that Google is tracking who people's partners are. You're welcome to have whatever opinions you are about companies, but I'd also hope that you're careful not to read conspiracies into places where they aren't stated, especially in about institutions you have preconceptions about.
        jacquesm 7mo ago
        That is exactly what that comment implies. Whether it is tracked explicitly or implicitly, the idea that there is a matrix that establishes your linkage to other accounts is the bit that I take issue with because the conclusion for me is that Google is able to infer things about the people they hold data on that they never ever should have access to. If you have a credible alternative explanation of what it does mean then you are welcome to supply that but instead you are making statements that are unverifiable: > Nothing they said implies that Google is tracking who people's partners are. That's a very, very thin line because if Google can figure out which account to ban and which account to let live because they are close enough that without that matrix the two would be seen as the same entity then that's already many levels of privacy violation too far. Being able to derive who is partner with whom once you have that data is trivial, whether Google actually does this or not is irrelevant because you can't prove a negative. You are well into the territory of defending the indefensible here and I'm giving you a lot of leeway because you most likely have a mortgage and a bunch of other responsibilities but effectively you are defending your employer from a claim of gathering data without consent. Which - as I probably don't need to remind you - is a massive violation of privacy. This all revolves around implied ability, I don't give a rats ass about whether or not there is an actual implementation of that ability - as it seems you do -, Google should not have this capability because I did not consent to its tracking of the relationships of my accounts vis-a-vis other accounts. Legal basis for data processing and informed consent are both staples of privacy law. I know that both of these, but especially consent are difficult topics for Google, they seem to approach these things from a 'we can therefore we will' angle and that has resulted time and again in them being found on the wrong side of the lines of ethics and legality. This is just one more little nail in that particular coffin.
neilv 7mo ago
> I bet you that if they ban one they ban the other too Related: I've had a suspicion that, if you have an Apple or Google app developer account through a company (in your name and recovery phone number, but company email address)... and you leave the company... you'd better hope that someone at the company doesn't then use the account to do something sketchy or rule-breaking. Someone inheriting the account is a very real possibility, given motive (people can be lazy about figuring out how to set up the account for another developer, or not want to pay another fee), and opportunity (professionalism norm is to preserve all passwords/secrets in a way that is accessible to the company).
- josephcsible 7mo ago
  It's worse than that. Google will ban you just because someone you've previously worked with has gone onto do something they don't like: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30855065 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30855065 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28730283 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28730283
DANmode 7mo ago
Who did you move to from Gmail? How’d you make out?
- driverdan 7mo ago
  I'm not OP but I moved to Fastmail. It has been great, I haven't missed Gmail at all.
  - int_19h 7mo ago
    Did the same, and Fastmail can also import your mail history.
- cube00 7mo ago
  Get your own domain, then it doesn't matter which provider you use because you can always re-point the domain and not have to upend your life changing email addresses everywhere.
  - DANmode 7mo ago
    Yes. There’s been varying degrees of ease of migrating mail out of mailboxes, though. Curious anyone recently has had an easy time on both ends, and no regrets.
    - cube00 7mo ago
      imapsync and self host dovecot, there's something satisfying knowing all your mail is 1000s of little files on your own NAS. At least it was when we could afford hard drives.

by blibble 7mo ago

londons_explore 7mo ago

Linked bans pretty much only happen if you use the same recovery phone number or email address. Other ways of linking an account, such as having both logged in on the same phone, don't put you at risk.

qmarchi 7mo ago
Disclaimer: Former Googler Yeah they do. There's an entire mesh of metrics that are used to calculate your relation to separate accounts. It's the confidence tolerance that keeps you and your partner from getting banned together.
- jacquesm 7mo ago
  > There's an entire mesh of metrics that are used to calculate your relation to separate accounts. > It's the confidence tolerance that keeps you and your partner from getting banned together. Thanks for that bit of info, the degree of disgusting that google would be tracking who people's partners are is off the scale invasive and should be a reason for an immediate complaint to the various data privacy authorities.
  - joshuamorton 7mo ago
    I think you're vastly misunderstanding that comment.
    - jacquesm 7mo ago
      Thus spake the Googler... sorry, but I think I understand it just fine, I think it is you that is not understanding it properly but since your salary depends on not understanding it properly I won't blame you for that.
      - joshuamorton 7mo ago
        I'll be more explicit, > google would be tracking who people's partners are is a misunderstanding of that comment. Nothing they said implies that Google is tracking who people's partners are. You're welcome to have whatever opinions you are about companies, but I'd also hope that you're careful not to read conspiracies into places where they aren't stated, especially in about institutions you have preconceptions about.
        jacquesm 7mo ago
        That is exactly what that comment implies. Whether it is tracked explicitly or implicitly, the idea that there is a matrix that establishes your linkage to other accounts is the bit that I take issue with because the conclusion for me is that Google is able to infer things about the people they hold data on that they never ever should have access to. If you have a credible alternative explanation of what it does mean then you are welcome to supply that but instead you are making statements that are unverifiable: > Nothing they said implies that Google is tracking who people's partners are. That's a very, very thin line because if Google can figure out which account to ban and which account to let live because they are close enough that without that matrix the two would be seen as the same entity then that's already many levels of privacy violation too far. Being able to derive who is partner with whom once you have that data is trivial, whether Google actually does this or not is irrelevant because you can't prove a negative. You are well into the territory of defending the indefensible here and I'm giving you a lot of leeway because you most likely have a mortgage and a bunch of other responsibilities but effectively you are defending your employer from a claim of gathering data without consent. Which - as I probably don't need to remind you - is a massive violation of privacy. This all revolves around implied ability, I don't give a rats ass about whether or not there is an actual implementation of that ability - as it seems you do -, Google should not have this capability because I did not consent to its tracking of the relationships of my accounts vis-a-vis other accounts. Legal basis for data processing and informed consent are both staples of privacy law. I know that both of these, but especially consent are difficult topics for Google, they seem to approach these things from a 'we can therefore we will' angle and that has resulted time and again in them being found on the wrong side of the lines of ethics and legality. This is just one more little nail in that particular coffin.

neilv 7mo ago

> I bet you that if they ban one they ban the other too Related: I've had a suspicion that, if you have an Apple or Google app developer account through a company (in your name and recovery phone number, but company email address)... and you leave the company... you'd better hope that someone at the company doesn't then use the account to do something sketchy or rule-breaking. Someone inheriting the account is a very real possibility, given motive (people can be lazy about figuring out how to set up the account for another developer, or not want to pay another fee), and opportunity (professionalism norm is to preserve all passwords/secrets in a way that is accessible to the company).

josephcsible 7mo ago
It's worse than that. Google will ban you just because someone you've previously worked with has gone onto do something they don't like: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30855065 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30855065 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28730283 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28730283

DANmode 7mo ago

Who did you move to from Gmail? How’d you make out?

driverdan 7mo ago
I'm not OP but I moved to Fastmail. It has been great, I haven't missed Gmail at all.
- int_19h 7mo ago
  Did the same, and Fastmail can also import your mail history.
cube00 7mo ago
Get your own domain, then it doesn't matter which provider you use because you can always re-point the domain and not have to upend your life changing email addresses everywhere.
- DANmode 7mo ago
  Yes. There’s been varying degrees of ease of migrating mail out of mailboxes, though. Curious anyone recently has had an easy time on both ends, and no regrets.
  - cube00 7mo ago
    imapsync and self host dovecot, there's something satisfying knowing all your mail is 1000s of little files on your own NAS. At least it was when we could afford hard drives.