5 ms·

It's misleading title, not Spain as the government but LaLiga(a sports organization) abused its given powers and apparently demanded that ISPs block the site.

• petcat 8mo ago
  I'm not aware of American ISPs and CDNs straight-up blocking websites. That is distinctly European-style censorship. American style censorship would be more like going through the courts to get an order to have the domains seized.
  • mrtksn 8mo ago
    [flagged]
    • petcat 8mo ago
      Domain seized. Not blocked by my ISP. It's a fundamentally different thing. In Europe, ISPs and CDNs just block websites willy-nilly at the request of La Liga, for instance. That doesn't happen in USA. It takes a court order and then the FBI seizes the domain.
      • mrtksn 8mo ago
        Why do you care about ISPs that much? It's the exactly same thing as an outcome, just different concerns and methods. Also, when you don't do anything illegal in USA just take away your company either by forcing you to sell it or forcing American companies not doing business with you. TikTok was removed from Apple AppStore forcefully, then reinstated and forcefully sold. Why ISP blocking is considered low morale but seizing your stuff high morale endeavor?
        • Larrikin 8mo ago
          [flagged]
        • petcat 8mo ago
          > not Spain as the government but LaLiga(a sports organization) abused its given powers and apparently demanded that ISPs block the site.
        • prosody 8mo ago
          There's positives and negatives to each. For government domain seizure, there's due process involved but working around it is harder (the service provider either has to acquire a new proper domain or onion domain, then disseminate it to the audience somehow). For ISP level blocking there's limited due process (at least in the cited case of LaLiga seemingly just issuing a complaint to the ISP), but the audience can easily work around with it with a VPN or sometimes just an alternate DNS server.
          • mrtksn 8mo ago
            ISP level blocking is for the mainstream, anyone slightly tech literate can overcome it. The domain seizure, forced service shut downs like app store distribution ban or payment processing ban or forcing hosting providers not to serve you and physically taking you into custody for spreading unlicensed content is the real deal and it’s actually effective.
            • rvnx 8mo ago
              Though even if there is a way to circumvent, if there is no audience or ad revenues, there is no motivation. Look at Twitch streamers or YouTubers who are banned: -> No revenue -> No audience -> No reason to continue -> "Problem" solved
      • GTP 8mo ago
        Isn't it even in the U.S. e.g. enough for some big music firm to claim copyright infringement on a YouTube video for it to be removed and the channel's owner get a copyright strike, no courts and no FBI involved? AFAIK this is what happens with so-called DMCA takedown requests.
        • mrtksn 8mo ago
          Exactly, in USA they just remove your videos from YouTube and in Spain in Italy they just block your domains on the ISPs for the exact same reasons and both are sometimes fraudulent.
          • rockemsockem 8mo ago
            The USA does not remove your videos from YouTube, Google does because they don't have the resources to evaluate all copyright claims and they are afraid of getting sued. You're welcome to host your own videos.
            • mrtksn 8mo ago
              Neither Spain is blocking freedom.gov, what is your point?
        • petcat 8mo ago
          The difference is that content creator can put the video on their own website and that domain won't get blocked by my ISP. It might get seized later after some judicial review.
          • deleted 8mo ago
            [deleted]
          • GTP 8mo ago
            Not sure about this, couldn't they send the very same DMCA takedown request to the ISP or the hosting provider?
      • maccard 8mo ago
        If you're going to be pedantic, you have to be correct. > In Europe, ISPs and CDNs just block websites willy-nilly at the request of La Liga, for instance There's so much wrong with this sentence. It's not Europe, it's Spain. La liga aren't just dropping emails to ISPs, they're gaining court orders (now, whether these court orders are warranted, or delivered correctly [0] or not is another question). > That doesn't happen in USA It doesn't happen in "Europe" either. [0] https://www.pcmag.com/news/nordvpn-protonvpn-ordered-block-pirated-la-liga-soccer-streams-spain https://www.pcmag.com/news/nordvpn-protonvpn-ordered-block-p...
        • throw__away7391 8mo ago
          I am not an expert here, but I have spent many vacations in Spain as it is one of my favorite countries, and I distinctly remember it being in Europe.
          • maccard 8mo ago
            Spain is in Europe. Not all of Europe is Spain!
      • hkt 8mo ago
        Is this not a symptom of where ICANN sits? Subject to American jurisdiction, so domain seizures make more sense for American litigants. In Europe, litigants must chase down ISPs who are the local gatekeepers. It makes sense that it works differently.
    • GauntletWizard 8mo ago
      Absolutely, America does seize domains with the assistance of local authorities[1] for crimes that are in prosecution. You may disagree with the reasoning for these crimes, or disagree that they are crimes at all, but US censorship works as a part of the legal system with well defined due process and remedies. This is classic whataboutism compared to the outright corporateocracy of la liga's blocking and seizure. [1] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-law-enforcement-assists-bulgarian-law-enforcement-taking-down-three-largest-piracy-sites https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-law-enforcement-assists-bu...
      • mrtksn 8mo ago
        Videos from platforms like YouTube are taken down for copyright reasons all the time without any due process, often wrongfully. The same thing happened but instead of some copyrights organization taking down YouTube/Twitter etc content, Italian copyrights organization blocked some Cloudflare IP addresses without due process for copyright reasons. The implementations differ slightly but it is exactly the same thing.
        • kube-system 8mo ago
          The vast majority of YouTube takedowns are done through voluntarily moderation, not via copyright takedown. They require no more due process than moderation of posts on this or any other website.
    • Beijinger 8mo ago
      What was the content of the website?
      • rvnx 8mo ago
        It seems to be a Bulgarian torrent website https://web.archive.org/web/20230207190846/https://zamunda.net/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230207190846/https://zamunda.n...
    • csomar 8mo ago
      Not that I agree with that but the bar to seize the domain (and all that comes with it) is much higher than carpet-blocking IPs and domains.
  • layer8 8mo ago
    In that case, European-style censorship is preferable, because you can just use another DNS server.
    • herbst 8mo ago
      Also you don't have to be afraid for your freedom when you just slightly go against someone bigger than you. Getting your domain blocked is favourable to getting sued and jailed usually
  • marginalia_nu 8mo ago
    Well we came pretty close with TikTok[1], which I guess is somewhat analogous. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efforts_to_ban_TikTok_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efforts_to_ban_TikTok_in_the_U...
• bflesch 8mo ago
  What are the odds that the Cloudflare CEO will have a twitter meltdown about this?