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> it's probably just easier to ignore the inconsistencies here For people who actually actively think of both, that may be the case? But "ignoring" presumes t

> it's probably just easier to ignore the inconsistencies here For people who actually actively think of both, that may be the case? But "ignoring" presumes the comparison feeling potentially valid to them in the first place. It's not ignorance or even an inconsistency if the comparison would feel so apples-to-oranges that it doesn't even occur to them. Maybe my view is distorted here, so here's a question to check that. Among the people you see complaining about how little attention is being paid to Iranians compared to Palestinians, (a) what fraction of them are themselves Iranian (excluding those with, say, loved ones in Israel), and (b) if you feel part (a) is small, then what is the largest group of people (and what percentage would you say it constitutes) that you would say you most often find making this comparison?

remarkEon 7mo ago
I think they’re overwhelmingly white, conservative, American, and usually are religious. We may be indirectly saying the same thing. The Palestinian cause is wrapped up in a number of other issues where the demographic overlap is not likely to include the same people I observe being upset about the lack of coverage of this protest movement in Iran. I don’t have a good explanation for that phenomenon, other than the perception that Persians are not members of a group-type that would otherwise elicit sympathy on the dimensions of identity, ethnicity, and so on.
- dataflow 7mo ago
  I'm not saying you're wrong (or right), but that you're simply jumping to a much more complicated explanation than what I'm seeing. My point was much more straightforward than that. All I'm saying is: you addressed (b), but what about (a)? That is, if you believe this comparison is merited, then surely Iranians would at least be making it themselves reasonably frequently? Now I don't know I'm living in a bubble, or if I'm just not keeping up with the news (I know for a fact there is a lot of news I'm missing, so I wouldn't put this past me by any means), but I simply don't see Iranians themselves going, e.g., "Why was there so much worldwide support for Palestinians but not for us?!"... is this something you do see? If so, I'd love to hear more about it (links or even anecdotes would be great)... but if not, I'm suggesting that maybe the comparison just isn't apt, is all.
  - remarkEon 7mo ago
    In fairness (to myself, I guess) I did start this thread out by saying that I do think this is more complex. With regard to your question, my mistake I thought I implied an answer to (a). Of the people I see complaining about this, a very very small fraction are actually Persian. It's really just one person, and she's someone I met through my wife while living in LA. There's not that many Iranian ex-pats living in the US relative to ... people who are not Iranian ex-pats, I guess, so if the point you're making is "Iranians who do not live under the regime don't care about this criticism" it's certainly possible you are correct, as I have n = 1 evidence to the contrary. My commentary was more on the general case, though, and I'm not sure how meaningful it is to try to discern the exact percentage of "Iranians not living in Iran are upset the media isn't covering the regime murdering its own people". This would be par for the course, no? It's not like it would be a surprise. So, what does it matter if the percentage of Iranians complaining about this issue is high, or low?
    - dataflow 7mo ago
      There's a very critical bit in my comment that is missing in your response unfortunately -- I'm not sure if I'm communicating it poorly, so I'll try again, with more emphasis. > I'm not sure how meaningful it is to try to discern the exact percentage of "Iranians not living in Iran are upset the media isn't covering the regime murdering its own people". This would be par for the course, no? I'm lost here, because that was not at all the percentage I was talking about -- and it didn't need to be even remotely exact, either. I was asking what percentage of Iranians (whether local or expat, although local would be even more relevant here) you see/hear about that compare the global reaction to their situation to the global reaction to Palestinians' situation. This comparison bit is absolutely critical. It's one thing to be upset the media isn't covering some situation you feel deserves more coverage. It's a whole 'nother thing to be pointing toward the Palestinians as if whatever is happening regarding them has any bearing on another case. (And, let's be clear, it carries an implicit accusation of bias/hypocrisy/etc. in the media and/or public.) > So, what does it matter if the percentage of Iranians complaining about this issue is high, or low? Assuming "this issue" refers to what I meant and not what you described: It matters a ton because my entire point is that for the argument to stand on its merits, Iranians themselves would have to agree with you. And yet I have not even heard of one single Iranian (and I assure you I know n > 1) who has even brought up Palestine in the discussion, let alone drawn a comparison between the two. Given the conflation above in your comment, it's not even clear to me whether your n = 1 data point was doing so either, but perhaps they were. Again: this could be my bubble, but your experience seems to confirm what I'm saying too. If hardly anyone in the population itself finds such a comparison apt enough to draw, then I'm sorry, that means it simply isn't. At that point, you have a perfectly sufficient explanation of why "all [one's] friends who posted non-stop about supporting Palestine have NEVER made one mention of supporting the Iranians protesting that regime": because they the situations aren't comparable to begin with, regardless of any biases one may allege.

remarkEon 7mo ago

I think they’re overwhelmingly white, conservative, American, and usually are religious. We may be indirectly saying the same thing. The Palestinian cause is wrapped up in a number of other issues where the demographic overlap is not likely to include the same people I observe being upset about the lack of coverage of this protest movement in Iran. I don’t have a good explanation for that phenomenon, other than the perception that Persians are not members of a group-type that would otherwise elicit sympathy on the dimensions of identity, ethnicity, and so on.

dataflow 7mo ago
I'm not saying you're wrong (or right), but that you're simply jumping to a much more complicated explanation than what I'm seeing. My point was much more straightforward than that. All I'm saying is: you addressed (b), but what about (a)? That is, if you believe this comparison is merited, then surely Iranians would at least be making it themselves reasonably frequently? Now I don't know I'm living in a bubble, or if I'm just not keeping up with the news (I know for a fact there is a lot of news I'm missing, so I wouldn't put this past me by any means), but I simply don't see Iranians themselves going, e.g., "Why was there so much worldwide support for Palestinians but not for us?!"... is this something you do see? If so, I'd love to hear more about it (links or even anecdotes would be great)... but if not, I'm suggesting that maybe the comparison just isn't apt, is all.
- remarkEon 7mo ago
  In fairness (to myself, I guess) I did start this thread out by saying that I do think this is more complex. With regard to your question, my mistake I thought I implied an answer to (a). Of the people I see complaining about this, a very very small fraction are actually Persian. It's really just one person, and she's someone I met through my wife while living in LA. There's not that many Iranian ex-pats living in the US relative to ... people who are not Iranian ex-pats, I guess, so if the point you're making is "Iranians who do not live under the regime don't care about this criticism" it's certainly possible you are correct, as I have n = 1 evidence to the contrary. My commentary was more on the general case, though, and I'm not sure how meaningful it is to try to discern the exact percentage of "Iranians not living in Iran are upset the media isn't covering the regime murdering its own people". This would be par for the course, no? It's not like it would be a surprise. So, what does it matter if the percentage of Iranians complaining about this issue is high, or low?
  - dataflow 7mo ago
    There's a very critical bit in my comment that is missing in your response unfortunately -- I'm not sure if I'm communicating it poorly, so I'll try again, with more emphasis. > I'm not sure how meaningful it is to try to discern the exact percentage of "Iranians not living in Iran are upset the media isn't covering the regime murdering its own people". This would be par for the course, no? I'm lost here, because that was not at all the percentage I was talking about -- and it didn't need to be even remotely exact, either. I was asking what percentage of Iranians (whether local or expat, although local would be even more relevant here) you see/hear about that compare the global reaction to their situation to the global reaction to Palestinians' situation. This comparison bit is absolutely critical. It's one thing to be upset the media isn't covering some situation you feel deserves more coverage. It's a whole 'nother thing to be pointing toward the Palestinians as if whatever is happening regarding them has any bearing on another case. (And, let's be clear, it carries an implicit accusation of bias/hypocrisy/etc. in the media and/or public.) > So, what does it matter if the percentage of Iranians complaining about this issue is high, or low? Assuming "this issue" refers to what I meant and not what you described: It matters a ton because my entire point is that for the argument to stand on its merits, Iranians themselves would have to agree with you. And yet I have not even heard of one single Iranian (and I assure you I know n > 1) who has even brought up Palestine in the discussion, let alone drawn a comparison between the two. Given the conflation above in your comment, it's not even clear to me whether your n = 1 data point was doing so either, but perhaps they were. Again: this could be my bubble, but your experience seems to confirm what I'm saying too. If hardly anyone in the population itself finds such a comparison apt enough to draw, then I'm sorry, that means it simply isn't. At that point, you have a perfectly sufficient explanation of why "all [one's] friends who posted non-stop about supporting Palestine have NEVER made one mention of supporting the Iranians protesting that regime": because they the situations aren't comparable to begin with, regardless of any biases one may allege.